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Thread: For Californians: Prop. 8 winning

  1. #91
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Marrying a dog? So, bestiality is fine, as long as the animal is consenting?

    That logic, that comment is the perfect example of the "slippery slope" conservative, and some liberals, use as the basis for their for voting for prop 8 and other similar measures. When comments like that one are made by gays, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

    A nine year old being assaulted by an adult isn't my business either, if that child is no relation to me. The action doesn't affect me or anyone close to me. That doesn't mean I have no say.

    While some don't oppose gay marriage, apathy towards the plight is just as detrimental to the progress of the movement.

    Gays can't know the other side. You aren't straight. You aren't the majority. You may have been surrounded by it, but you have never been a part of it. Whether you like it or not, someone who knows the other side is telling you several things.

    One, the combative method is ineffective and could push those who support you now to the other side.

    Two, making comments that can be inferred as meaning anything currently seen as immoral is fine if it isn't hurting anyone else is adding fuel to the campaigns against you.

    Three, supporting those who don't seem to want your support is difficult. Opponents have the right to marry. Using the same "if it isn't my business..." logic, why should they support gay marriage and vote against bans? It doesn't affect them.

    "Why do people give a damn about things that aren't their business?"

    Good question. Since gay marriage isn't any straight person's business, why should any straights care? We can marry our partners any time we like.
    For one, it was a humorour example, however...

    I repeat, again, that straight people need to butt the fuck out of other people's lives and mind their own marriages instead of dictating what anybody else can do with theirs. They SHOULD be on the side of equal rights. If they aren't, then fuck em. That's what the entitled majority gets as a gift: blissful ignorance. When WE can vote on THEIR marriages, well that's when they can vote on ours. Period.

    And my ass, we can't know what it's like. Frankly, we probably know better than straight people. We're surrounded by something that WE CANNOT HAVE, at all times. We suffer the lack of financial opportunities, we suffer the lack of being barred from a partner in the hospital, and all the other indignities that YOU never have to endure or even notice.

    A kid being abused means one party is coming to harm, which is not acceptable. How many straight marriages are abusive? Should all marriage end as a result? Why is that agument, though twisted, being used against gays? It's absurd.

    Secondly, it'll go to the courts and eventually there will be no need to curry any damn favor with people who should be minding their own business. It will be law, and that'll be that. Then if straight people have a problem with it, they can come say it to our faces. That won't happen.

    I'm tired to death of straight people telling gays "don't say this, don't do that, you're scary, we don't accept you unless you act how we like"

    Fuck that. Equality will be rammed down their throats whether they like it or not eventually. If they don't like it, tough shit. Evolution is a bitch. They should be acting like decent human beings in the first place.

    </endmilitantgaymode>
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  2. #92
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    I know what you meant. I know you were not serious. That does not mean those words can not be twisted by someone with an opposing motive.

    You may not like it, but that is how it is.

    Did you read that I am not in support of oppression, but telling you how the oppressors think? There is no way you can know the logic behind a yes vote, because you aren't one of the het's who did it. I can't know what it is to be gay and I have stated that many times. When I try to discuss it, nine time out of ten, I get the militant gay who thinks I am trying to mock him. How dare someone who doesn't know ask a fucking question in order to gain understanding!

    As I have stated, continue on your militant path. It won't work. You can tell the straight majority to butt the fuck out, but your command means nothing. Why? The straights are the majority.

    I don't have to support oppression, but if the other side is going to lash out at me, I don't have to care either. Obviously, even as a straight who has changed her mind and seen the pain inflicted on fellow Americans, I am still the enemy. I have been told what I think doesn't matter and my thoughts are not welcome by the gays.

    If you treat people like the enemy, you could push them to be the enemy.



  3. #93
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yes, i'm not talking about you, that's why i said "THEY"

    Secondly, playing nice does shit all. It has to go to court.

    Playing nice hasn't done the Log Cabin republicans one lick of good lol
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  4. #94
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    thats why i say for men to stay the hell out of women's body-related issues. ie. abortion and reproductive rights!

    Prop. 8 Protestors Gather At Mormon Temple In L.A.
    LOS ANGELES (AP) ― Hundreds of gay rights activists have gathered in front of a Mormon temple in Los Angeles to protest California's new ban on gay marriage.

    The protesters marching Thursday outside the Westwood temple accuse the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints of spending millions to air deceptive advertisements in support of Proposition 8.

    The measure passed on Tuesday with 52 percent of voters casting their ballot to define marriage as a heterosexual union.

    Mormon church spokesman Keith Atkinson says members were encouraged to support the ban on gay marriage, but the church made no institutional donations.

    ( 2008 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.)
    GOOD! YOU KNO HOW MUCH THAT TEMPLE BULLSHIT BUILDING IS WORTH?! I HOPE THEY BURN IT DOWN! I should be there instead of bitching about it, i should be doing something...........
    Last edited by AliceInWonderland; November 6th, 2008 at 05:28 PM.

  5. #95
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Take it to the Supreme Court? The one which is stacked with conservative placed justices? Unless over half the current justices retire and are replaced with ultra-liberal justices, you are facing your worst enemies, who will have the last word.

    There are two justices, Ginsburg and Breyer, who weren't appointed by republican presidents. The Chief Justice, Roberts, is considered quite conservative and was appointed by Dubya.

    Five of the sitting Justices are Catholic, which is inconsistent with the makeup of America. Those five represent more than fifty percent of the Court, while Catholics are between twenty and thirty percent of Americans.

    Now that democrats are the majority in the House and Senate and are in the White House, it is highly doubtful any conservative justice will leave his position unless circumstances dictate it. Ginsburg may retire, but she was appointed by a dem and knows another liberal would be nominated.

    This is why I don't see many proponents worried about this issue making it to the Supreme Court. If they can push it through before any repub appointees leave, there is a good chance a reason, regardless of how trivial, can be found to shoot down the petition and force the cycle to begin again.



  6. #96
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    This vote was "tyranny of the masses" pure and simple. Its got to go to the courts and it needs to go as a lawsuit. Someone needs to sue for violation of civil rights. And the angle needs to be regarding the building of a family.

  7. #97
    Elite Member Str8_uncut-jock's Avatar
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    I think someone should propose a constitutional amendment in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee and Arkansas that would make it illegal for interracial couples to marry. People would be appauled, yet there is a pretty good chance it would pass. After that, I think we pick another fringe group and go after them. Keep it going. Eventually someone would come to the realization that discrimination is not the way to go...maybe...or maybe not.

  8. #98
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    ^^The states can't do that. Loving vs. Virginia took care of that.

    Besides, in LA and MS, definitely the coast, people would skirt that by claiming to be mixed. As I have already mentioned, there are justices of the peace and ministers who will not conduct ceremonies for different race couples. Illegal? Yes. In practice. Definitely.

    Asking to repeal rights of the very people who can help you won't help your cause.



  9. #99
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    "Why do people give a damn about things that aren't their business?"

    Good question. Since gay marriage isn't any straight person's business, why should any straights care? We can marry our partners any time we like.
    Because it's unfair and unconstitutional to strip civil rights from any minority groups. Even if I'm not a part of that minority group, I know damn well it's wrong and I can't help but speak out against it. It's like being a bystander in a horrible traffic accident: it doesn't directly affect you but you know it's wrong if those people died just because you couldn't be bothered to help.

  10. #100
    Elite Member Str8_uncut-jock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    ^^The states can't do that. Loving vs. Virginia took care of that.

    Besides, in LA and MS, definitely the coast, people would skirt that by claiming to be mixed. As I have already mentioned, there are justices of the peace and ministers who will not conduct ceremonies for different race couples. Illegal? Yes. In practice. Definitely.

    Asking to repeal rights of the very people who can help you won't help your cause.
    At this point the only thing I am hearing from you is that I should shut the fuck up and say thank ya massa for letting me have my civil liberty scraps from the equality table. Civil disobedience has not worked. Living a "normal" productive life where I contribute substantially to the tax base and intellectual captial of my district and country has not worked. I have followed all the rules. I have settled into a nice neighborhood, attended college (several actually, earning a bachelors degree, a masters degree and a doctorate), got a great job, paid taxes, voted, supported my fellow Americans and played by the rules. The only thing it has done for my civil rights is make it easy for discriminators to smile at me while they stab me in the back. It makes it easy for them to ignore me.

  11. #101
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    ^^ Bingo. You assimilated and it got you squat. In fact, THEY got everything.. tax money, a useful member of society at your own expense, AND you don't offend their sensibilities because you have a facade of "normalcy" that they can clance at without seeing the actual gay guy underneath.

    That's not to say that buying a nice house in a quiet neighborhood, getting a good education, and being a good member of society is conforming, exactly.. EVERYBODY should want to achieve that.. but in a way, it's made YOU easier to stomach, until you go asking for actual equality that can't be bought.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  12. #102
    Elite Member Str8_uncut-jock's Avatar
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    I am still evolving in my thoughts about who I am and what my purpose is. I am just now realizing that my "normalcy" is easy to ignore...suddenly I feel like those light skinned blacks who "passed" during segregation. They enjoyed, somewhat, the benefits of the mainstream, but in reality were still not seen equally.

    And at what point have I earned my equal rights and equal protections? How much more do I have to give to prove that I am worthy of those things?

  13. #103
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Depends. What have you sacrificed that you did not have before?

    Rights aren't earned. They're taken.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  14. #104
    Elite Member Str8_uncut-jock's Avatar
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    I live a charmed life Grimm. I do. I have what I need and usually what i want. I travel extensively. I buy the things I think are cool. I have a loving partner. I escaped a life of extreme poverty by getting a quality education. Oh, and I am also a second class citizen in my own country.

  15. #105
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    For now. They won't win, it's all a stalling tactic.

    Funny how gay marriage passed up here with not much protest.. they actually had to bus in baptist fucks from America to protest on Parliament Hill. I enjoyed an afternoon screaming at them.. most notably ain interracial married couple, black and asian. I gave them an earful.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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