Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 141

Thread: For Californians: Prop. 8 winning

  1. #46
    Elite Member Str8_uncut-jock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Horse Country
    Posts
    1,756

    Default

    ^I can only speak for myself, and I have gotten myself in hot water for that before, but I would be satisfied if the law recognized my personal rights equally to those of any other person. It is not about the term "marriage" for me personally, it is about all the rights, priviledges and responsibilities that come with it. I also think the federal government should get out of the marriage business and simply recognize all legal unions as that...not as a religious agreement, but as a legally binding union. That would make me happy. To be treated fairly and equally under the law...without regard to my sexual orientation. I suspect others will see it differently, but I just want the same basic rights others have...I don't care what you call it.

  2. #47
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Where Being PC is understood as a fault!
    Posts
    11,591

    Default

    ^^That is where I am confused on the argument. Straight people are married civilly. If gays could turn the tide and have civil same-sex legal unions put into law, it would give you the same legal rights as straight married couples.

    Why not take the small victory and use that to march on the the final battle?

    My arguments against gay marriage were not against legal gay unions; the argument was against the terminology.

    I know many who feel, or felt, the same way. They want gay people to have the right to legally join, but not have it referred to as a marriage. Why not take that and use it to push forward?



  3. #48
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    31,665

    Default

    I'm not gay, but even I can tell you that smacks of "separate but equal" logic and it is not going to fly. Any distinction opens the door to take away rights, and somehow infer that a gay marriage is not as good as a hetero marriage. How would that make anyone feel?

  4. #49
    Elite Member Str8_uncut-jock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Horse Country
    Posts
    1,756

    Default

    I am not, as I have said many times here, a scholar on all things gay. I am just one person who only owns my own personal feelings and beliefs. I do not speak for all things gay and I would never profess to. I think the beauty of our people, all Americans, is the diversity of thought we have.

    With that being said, I do not believe people voted to ban gay marriage because of terminology. I do not. It is a scapegoat, in my view, to hide their own bigotry and to seem less prejudice than they really are. Notice, I said, terminology was not important to me either, but if the federal government is going to recognize legal unions and call them a "marriage," then that is what it is for all of us. If the federal governments wants to recognize civil unions, then do it for all...and let the churchs perform marriages...seperate from the legal protection of the law. Seperate but equal is never equal...never.

    Also, you might be interesting in knowing the top 10 states with the highest divorce rates in the United States are all RED states. It is not about sancitity of marriage...it is about us against them. People who openly vote for discrimination against members of its own citizenry are, in my view, traitors to our country. Those voters are against every thing this country was founded on...equal rights and equal protection without religious condemnation or persecution.

    As far as taking the small vitory and using that to march on...I would. I would, at this point, take any victory. This is especially true when all I am seeing in our states is blatant discrimination, being legislated, and aimed at me personally. However, I would not stop at having seperate but equal rights...I want and deserve the same, the exact same, rights you have.

    Let me also note that I am angry. I am disenfranchised and demeaned by people who vote to support discrimination...and that is what it is, no matter what you call it or how you dress it up.

  5. #50
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    you already know.
    Posts
    44,439

    Default

    this is such bullshit, i know there will be shit for this!

    Prop 8: Same-Sex Marriage Ban

    Yes: 52%

    No: 48%

    96% reporting
    fuck the religious right and their so-called morals fucking hypocrites from hell!

  6. #51
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Where Being PC is understood as a fault!
    Posts
    11,591

    Default

    *waves white flag* @ Bee and str8

    Wait! I did not ask that question to offend anyone of try to excuse the persecution of someone for an innate trait. That is not what I was trying to convey.

    I asked because I am not gay and the only way to see this through the eyes of those for whom these propositions affect is to ask and hope they will share, for which I thank you str8.

    A gay friend asked me,"How would you feel if you were told you couldn't marry because you are black?" That is when the proverbial other shoe dropped.

    I remember when I married, I had to go several cities over to find someone willing to perform the ceremony because I am black and the groom was white. I was angry.

    The epiphany of hypocrisy comes at the least expected times.

    I am not suggesting anyone accept less than what they deserve. What I am looking at, from a strategic point of view, is this issue will not be settled overnight. If one small step can be taken, it is progress and can add momentum to the movement.

    I would never suggest anyone accept discrimination. I would suggest looking at the situation and finding a path to the goal.

    I live in a Red state, although my views have never fit with the majority. I'm not as conservative. I don't believe the Bible has a place in government, since those words can be twisted a million ways.

    I never looked at this as disenfranchising my fellow citizens. This is not a topic I could find anyone to discuss openly with me in this area of the country. Basically, covert homosexuality is accepted, but it is never to be in the open and definitely not allowed in marriages. It just isn't done. I am not saying it is right, which it isn't. I am saying what the situation is in these red states.

    I can only speak for myself, but I can't support discrimination against anyone. If I discriminate against gays with the fundie right, could I really complain when the day comes some ultra right winger wants to send me back to the fields?

    Watching the election last night really made me take a hard look at my stance on this issue and was the final push to the other side. How could I celebrate change, while encouraging oppression?

    I can only hope others will experience an awakening and stop letting groups suffer, just because they are not a part of them.



  7. #52
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    If I was up your ass you'd know where I am!
    Posts
    7,751

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AliceInWonderland View Post
    this is such bullshit, i know there will be shit for this!

    fuck the religious right and their so-called morals fucking hypocrites from hell!
    You do realize this didn't pass soley because of support from the religious right? To get these passing numbers there were lots of others, even some who claim to be liberals and who voted for Obama, voting for this as well.
    Only the good die young.........................
    bitches like me live forever!!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. #53
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    you already know.
    Posts
    44,439

    Default

    yeah but they funded crazy commercials about children being taught about gay marriage in school and bla bla bla like thats such a horrible thing, but it scared ppl into a tizzy or something. those commercials were funded by out-of-state religious groups, most notably those retarded mormons.

    A challenge to Prop 8 emerges
    By Frank Girardot on November 5, 2008 8:49 AM | Permalink | Comments (16) | ShareThis
    Here's the first press release of the morning regarding the passage of Proposition 8, the ban on same sex marriages in California. It comes from the law offices of Gloria Allred:

    Attorney Gloria Allred and her clients, Robin Tyler and Diane Olson, will hold a news conference today November 5, 2008 at 12:00 noon at 6300 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 1500 L.A. to announce a new lawsuit against Prop. 8. Prop. 8 intended to ban same gender marriages in California.

    Ms. Allred and her law firm represented the couple in their victory before the California Supreme Court. Her clients became the first to marry in Los Angeles County in June.

    Ms. Allred will file the new lawsuit today with the California Supreme Court on behalf of the couple. The new lawsuit will contain a new and controversial legal argument as to why Prop. 8 is unconstitutional.

    Copies of the lawsuit will be provided to the press at the news conference.
    thats right bitches, eat it! this will not pass quietly into the night in CA, not even close.
    Last edited by AliceInWonderland; November 5th, 2008 at 02:08 PM.

  9. #54
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    31,665

    Default

    I didn't take offense to your question RIS, I realize you're trying to get perspective on this. And I really appreciate that you took the time to ask and think about it. I especially agree with this:
    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post

    Watching the election last night really made me take a hard look at my stance on this issue and was the final push to the other side. How could I celebrate change, while encouraging oppression?

    I can only hope others will experience an awakening and stop letting groups suffer, just because they are not a part of them.
    I hope many more people have the same epiphany because I do believe it was the huge minority (blacks and hispanic) turnout that pushed Prop 8 to pass.

  10. #55
    Elite Member azoria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    far and away
    Posts
    4,241

    Default

    It ain't over yet.

    I predict this initiative will be contested in court and the whole shebang flushed down the garbage disposal.

    Give a little time for the court challenges to be filed and start working their way through the legal system. I believe Proposition 8 will never stand up under legal scrutiny.

    You watch.

  11. #56
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,359

    Default

    Lawsuit launched against Prop 8 from the originators that got gay marriage legalized in CA in the first place:

    NEW SAME GENDER MARRIAGE LAWSUIT

    Attorney Gloria Allred and her clients, a lesbian couple, who won right to marry in the California Supreme Court will hold a news conference to announce a new lawsuit against Prop. 8

    Attorney Gloria Allred and her clients, Robin Tyler and Diane Olson, will hold a news conference today November 5, 2008 at 12:00 noon at 6300 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 1500 L.A. to announce a new lawsuit against Prop. 8. Prop. 8 intended to ban same gender marriages in California.

    Ms. Allred and her law firm represented the couple in their victory before the California Supreme Court. Her clients became the first to marry in Los Angeles County in June.

    Ms. Allred will file the new lawsuit today with the California Supreme Court on behalf of the couple. The new lawsuit will contain a new and controversial legal argument as to why Prop. 8 is unconstitutional. Copies of the lawsuit will be provided to the press at the news conference.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  12. #57
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    you already know.
    Posts
    44,439

    Default

    they're going to flood the courts with this shizz, it ain't over!

  13. #58
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Where Being PC is understood as a fault!
    Posts
    11,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeyotch View Post
    I didn't take offense to your question RIS, I realize you're trying to get perspective on this. And I really appreciate that you took the time to ask and think about it. I especially agree with this:

    I hope many more people have the same epiphany because I do believe it was the huge minority (blacks and hispanic) turnout that pushed Prop 8 to pass.
    I am trying to gain perspective. I can never fully understand what it is like to be gay in this society. I can totally understand what silent oppression is, though.

    Environment is no excuse, but I can't help what I have been surrounded by all my life. Whether I realize it or not, I am influenced by the background noise. What I do when I consciously hear it is my choice alone.

    I agree Bee, the high turnout of minorities probably did cause the shift. The males, hispanic and black, will be the most resistant group.



  14. #59
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,359

    Default

    I never understood the resistance to gay marriage.. there never seems to be any LOGICAL explanation for it.

    It's always "marriage must be defended!", like it's some immutable, unchanging thing that has not altered its shape, form or meaning in the last 2000 years, when the exact opposite is true.

    No skies have fallen anywhere its legal, nobody elses marriage was invalidated..

    I just don't get what argument there IS to say no. It just seems like exclusionary bigotry because some people need to express it SOMEWHERE.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  15. #60
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    379

    Default

    I don't understand it either. I can even say I support a church's right to ban gay marriage in the church because I believe that whatever whacko religion they want to believe and ascribe rules to, that's one thing.

    But legal marriage?

    However I do know my Born Again Christian friend warned me about this being on the ballot. Pretty funny since it wasn't in our state.

    But her point, which I think may have influenced other voters is the way same sex couples are being pushed in the school systems here. They call it "teaching the kids to be gay."

    I have to admit I don't see the need to teach kindergarden kids about homosexuality.



    The Steady Drip: LEGAL: Decision to teach kids to be 'gay' allowed to stand

    Decision to teach kids to be 'gay' allowed to stand

    School holds surprise 'Gay' Day for kindergartners


    As much as I am a staunch supporter of gay rights. I don't understand this approach. I'm sure most of it is exaggerated. However the most tolerant Christian out there is not going to sit for this being done to five year olds. So I have to ask what's the point to it?

Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Prop. 8 ad that is seriously annoying Mormons
    By buttmunch in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: November 4th, 2008, 02:57 PM
  2. California Prop 8 a toss-up
    By Fluffy in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: October 23rd, 2008, 12:26 PM
  3. Lisa Edelstein: Prop 2 event
    By olivia720 in forum Famous Style
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: October 4th, 2008, 09:48 PM
  4. Olivia Wilde at Yes! On Prop 2 Party (09/28/08)
    By wheelbarrow in forum Latest Photos
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: October 3rd, 2008, 06:14 PM
  5. Why are New Yorkers different than Californians?
    By Mira in forum The Little Big World
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: November 15th, 2007, 02:35 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •