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Thread: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

  1. #31
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    If I remember correctly they did come to the US and drove planes into buildings. If you think they will STOP at that you are wrong.

    That proves my point on exactly how misinformed you are, and why you keep repeating factually incorrect propaganda:

    There were NO iraqis on those planes. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 whatsoever. Your own government determined this.

    The people who were on those planes were Saudis. You know, the guys you're allies with?

    If you think they will STOP at that you are wrong.

    Probably not, until other nations stop playing 'rape & pillage' with their holy lands.

    I still say their crazy anyone who doesn't value human life is not playing with a full deck, if you know what I mean

    It's a matter of perspective.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  2. #32
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    I'm so glad we have a Bushie on here. I need to hear the other side. I wonder if because there are so many lefties I'm getting skewed idea......but I'm not. Her reasons are wrong and nonsensicle. The saudi are our enimies but because they have the oil we make nice nice with them. We should be nicer to Canada that is where we import most of our oil from.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  3. #33
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    That whole Iraq/9-11 thing has been so disproved, and yet people KEEP repeating it! I don't understand why!

    Oh wait, yes I do. They listen to Bush saying "9-11/Iraq/Terrorists" and don't realize he's been trying to combine that language to create one identifiable enemy, and spread some of the '9-11' fervor onto his botched misadventure in Iraq.

    It worked so well that 53% of Americans thought Saddam caused 9/11, which is beyond ridiculous and any CASUAL researching would have shown them otherwise, but noooo....
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  4. #34
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    Quote Originally Posted by nana55 View Post
    I'm so glad we have a Bushie on here. I need to hear the other side. I wonder if because there are so many lefties I'm getting skewed idea......but I'm not. Her reasons are wrong and nonsensicle. The saudi are our enimies but because they have the oil we make nice nice with them. We should be nicer to Canada that is where we import most of our oil from.
    I really don't get why this Administration is so antagonistic to Canada. Do you think it is because they think they can get just get away with it so they do it? Alienating Canada just does not make any sense to me. I don't see what is in it for them?

  5. #35
    Bronze Member Tsarina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    Don't want to jump into a political battle with my fellow posters but something stuck out while I was reading this thread....
    (excuse my quoting skills please)

    (posted by hazeleyed_honey)After the Gulf War, the U.S. imposed sanctions on Iraq for 10 years which killed 1 million Iraqis,which is something even Saddam did not kill that many people in Iraq. The sanctions starved Iraqis to death and they weren't even allowed having medications to cure diseases. They were weren't even allowing having lead because supposedly you can make superbombs out of lead. So there was a shortage for pencils in schools.
    Actually it was the U.N. who imposed the sanctions and passed the resolutions to bring Saddam into line and deter his WMD program; not the U.S. alone. Time and again, he was urged to comply and many people are on record (since 1991) stating their concern about him seeking a WMD program and/or having one.

    And the Iraqi's starved to death at Saddam's own hand because of the oil scandals and kickbacks. The U.N. arranged an oil for food program which Saddam plundered. Anyway, plenty of good info out there about it....just wanted to point out it isn't always "zero" or "infinity" as some people would have us believe. The U.S. didn't starve the Iraqi's as claimed.

    and this whole debate begs the question in my mind how EEEEEEEVIL Saddam needed to be before removal. The argument I hear from a lot of people is that "he wasn't attacking America", "he kept terrorism at bay", etc..to my way of thinking, he had to go because he was evil and murderous, etc, etc.... As much it pains me to see our military go off to war, I'm glad he's gone.

    Okay....jumping back onto the median so I won't have any tire marks on me!!!
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye.
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  6. #36
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    ^^ Sure, he's gone... kind of weird how when he wasn't useful anymore to the US, all of a sudden he's 'evil' and 'needs to be removed' don't you think?

    It's just a tad convenient, no? I mean, he gassed the fuck out of the Kurds and the Iranians, but that's ok and he was an ally in the 80's...

    Not to mention that the ends do not justify the means.. this whole enterprise was carried off in the most horrible way possible.. lies, subterfuge, misinformation, info doctoring.. not to mention the Iraqi death count, lord knows what that's at now..
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #37
    Gold Member Elise's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    Quote Originally Posted by nana55 View Post
    I'm so glad we have a Bushie on here. I need to hear the other side. I wonder if because there are so many lefties I'm getting skewed idea......but I'm not. Her reasons are wrong and nonsensicle. The saudi are our enimies but because they have the oil we make nice nice with them. We should be nicer to Canada that is where we import most of our oil from.
    I think there are more Bushies on here--they just don't want to speak up.

    & I think Saddam WAS evil--they have found mass graves in Iraq...disgusting.
    A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world. Everyone you meet is your mirror. -Ken Keyes Jr.

  8. #38
    Bronze Member Tsarina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    The more I read about Saddam (not from a politcal slant in the U.S. but from documentaries and such) the more I too feel disgusted. He was truly a horrible man. And I can't say with certainty that ignoring him would have been the right thing to do.

    I tend to think the quagmire isn't the mission itself. It's the accompanying circus that includes politicans and the media all wanting to spin, spin, spin. That's the part that's so disheartening. We send our soliders over to fight and then find our country bitterly divided over who said what and when and to whom. Not being dismissive to the run up to war....but it's time to put our heads back in the huddle and get our guys squared away.
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye.
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  9. #39
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    There are mass graves and evil despots in a lot of countries without oil but you don't find the U.S. rushing in to "save" those poor souls.

  10. #40
    Bronze Member Tsarina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    so how long before Chavez is pulled out of Ven.?
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye.
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  11. #41
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    Well, the US screwed over numerous south and central american countries in the 80's by propping up evil dictators.. it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to do it again.

    As for this..

    Not being dismissive to the run up to war....but it's time to put our heads back in the huddle and get our guys squared away.

    It's time to figure out if Bush and his admin lied, and if so boot them out and get fresh talent in the office who can disengage from the mess he made.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  12. #42
    Bronze Member Tsarina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    Well there seem to be two issues at hand:

    1. make Iraq able to stand on it's own two feet and govern themselves according to the constitiution and elections. Get them capable of handling any insurgents who want to cause trouble. Some reports say their forces are standing up more and more with out our assistance but we're still needed obviously.

    2. pre-war intelligence. The age old who did what to whom and how often and who got a report on it. The entire intelligence community is a joke. They need to examine every scrape of paper deemed worthy in the war plan. Then they will need to determine who acted willfully on their own (if at all).

    I would prefer #1 to happen first. The troops need to come home and Iraq needs to step it up.
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye.
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  13. #43
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarina View Post
    Actually it was the U.N. who imposed the sanctions and passed the resolutions to bring Saddam into line and deter his WMD program; not the U.S. alone. Time and again, he was urged to comply and many people are on record (since 1991) stating their concern about him seeking a WMD program and/or having one.
    The U.N. did impose it,but the U.S. were the main ones behind it. The U.S. were also the ones who kept that kept preventing the U.N. from lifting the sanctions. That is why I say U.S. sanctions since they were the main ones behind it.

    And the Iraqi's starved to death at Saddam's own hand because of the oil scandals and kickbacks. The U.N. arranged an oil for food program which Saddam plundered. Anyway, plenty of good info out there about it....just wanted to point out it isn't always "zero" or "infinity" as some people would have us believe. The U.S. didn't starve the Iraqi's as claimed.
    I don't know as much in depth about the oil-for-food program and I know it was so much corruption with it and how Saddam would take money for oil. Saddam was a brutal leader,but before the Gulf War, Iraq was among one of the most prosperous of the third world nations in terms of health care, education,etc...

    My parents are Palestinian. While they were living in Kuwait, they were not allowed to study there unless they had connections and big money because of prejudice against Palestinians in the Kuwaiti state. So,they went to Iraq where they graduated from universities and they attended school for FREE. Under Saddam, out of Iraq came out the most intelligent and skilled doctors and nurses because of the powerful education system Iraq used to have.

    Iraq has always been in turmoil and had ethnic rivalries. Being under the rule of Saddam Hussein is just like living in any other Arab country. If you did not try to revolt against Saddam and make an uprising, you were safe. It is like that in ANY other Arab country who are under dictatorship and authoritarian regimes. People avoid talking about politics and saying things in public against their leader in lessening the chances of being caught and getting tortured or killed.

    Saddam and his regime did not go and kill anyone just because they blinked. There was civil tension going on between the Shias, Kurds and Sunnis. What he did to the Kurds is unexcusableand he should be tried for that.Not only should Saddam be held responsible,all those from each side should be held responsible. Obviously, since Saddam's Sunni faction was in power, they did the most damage. He was a brutal leader and he is NO different than those other leaders out there who are allies with Bush.

    You know who put Saddam in power?It was the CIA and the U.S. which helped Saddam's Baathist regime get power to take over Iraq's Communist party which used to rule Iraq during the Cold War.Do not forget that they provided him with biological and other weapons which Saddam used in turn to gas his own people. That would make Reagan an accomplice in this whole mess.

    ]and this whole debate begs the question in my mind how EEEEEEEVIL Saddam needed to be before removal. The argument I hear from a lot of people is that "he wasn't attacking America", "he kept terrorism at bay", etc..to my way of thinking, he had to go because he was evil and murderous, etc, etc.... As much it pains me to see our military go off to war, I'm glad he's gone.

    Okay....jumping back onto the median so I won't have any tire marks on me!!!
    Yes,he was a brutal dictator,but he is no worse or better than the other Arab dictators that Bush is allies with. *cough*Saudi Arabia(who funded the 9/11 hijackers)*cough*

    I am just showing the hypocrisy of the U.S. government administration. If Saddam still complied with the U.S. to this day, and sucked up to them like he did in the 80s and like Saudi Arabia does,he'd still be ruling Iraq with an iron first today. The U.S. only brings down dictatorship regimes when they get in their way and only when it benefits them. Also, who funds these dictators and terrorists?The U.S. funded Osama and they funded Saddam. They need to stop funding terrorist organizations and some of the most brutal regime leaders out there.

    What about Sudan?What about North Korea?What about Tibet,etc..?Oh yes,they do not have rich natural resources like black oil.Who are the U.S. government to be talking about getting rid of terrorists when they exercise terrorism themselves and fund terrorists around the world?They want to talk about humanitarian reasons?Then why the heck are they allies with the worst of regimes in the world out there? Hypocrisy much?

    What about the Kurds in Turkey where they constitute of being the most out of all the other populations of Kurds in surrounding countries?The Turks have killed way more Kurds than Saddam did and have seen the Ottoman Empire ruled those regions. At least in Saddam's Iraq,they had priviledges and an autonomous government in the north of Iraq which Saddam signed in the 70s.
    In Turkey,they are not even allowed speaking their own language. But does anyone say anything about that?Nope.Why?Because Turkey are U.S. allies. It was just exactly like how it was when Saddam was killing off the Kurds when they were his allies.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    Quote Originally Posted by britlitgal View Post
    what bad news? you liberals. honestly. depose a dictator, save millions of lives, close the rape rooms and child prisons, allow a democratic government to emerge and voices of the iraqi people to be heard for the first time in 20 years... and it's all bad news!!!!! if clinton had done all of this, you would be singing a completely different tune. too bad he was more concerned about his popularity and not about doing what's right. your politics makes obvious your hypocrisy and selfishness. party of the people my ass.
    What is the difference between Saddam's Iraq and the Iraq now under U.S. occupation?Now they are STILL oppressed and they are being killed from both sides, the insurgents and the allied troops.

    What about Abu Gharib?What about the fact Iraqis are targeted on purpose by some of the allied troops and Iraqi insurgents?What about the fact they have missiles dropping on their homes and white phosphorus melting away their skins?What about the fact that this Iraqi government which is an American puppet has corrupted Iraqi police officers and is detaining Iraqi prisoners,mostly Sunnis without charge and using torture on them?

    Oh yes,wow...that does seem like better than Saddam's Iraq.

    The Iraqis are suppressed now by the American government. They are not free, they are under the occupation of the U.S.

    How is this war liberating the Iraqis?Did they ASK to be liberated?Nope.It is just pure chaos and hell right now over there. If anything, when the U.S. leaves, a civil war will happen and Iraq will be taken over warlords as in the case of Afghanistan.

    You need to look no further than Afghanistan. Afghanistan has been taken over by warlords, and women's lives are in great danger because there is NO security. The two main tribes are fighting each other off and barging into each other's homes and raping the women. The U.S. went to "liberate" them from Taliban rule only to bring more dangers into the area.

    Democracy cannot be forced upon,it forms from within FOR the people BY the people. Democracy does not just happen suddenly.They are certain reforms that need to take place to lead to it. A great example I can think of is the Eastern European countries that overthrew the communist regimes. No one interfered in pushing to become democracies. They did it themselves. A great example is the "Velvelt Revolution" which was a bloodless revolution in Czechoslovakia that overthrew the communist regime there.

    I just HATE it when some people say Bush is liberating the Iraqis. It is a crock of nonsense.

    Why would Bush care even for Iraqi civilians if they live in a democracy or not?He only cares for the black oil.

    I am SO sorry people for writing essays...but yeah...I do not know how to condense all this stuff,so it comes out pretty long.

  15. #45
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bush deaf and blind to bad news on Iraq.

    Oh yes,wow...that does seem like better than Saddam's Iraq.

    Actually, Saddam's Iraq had electricity, running water, and some of the best universities in the middle east.

    Hmm. Not much of that now, except for the electricity and water in the green zone. It's been 4 frigging years too.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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