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Thread: Bush, Cheney, DeLay, etc. responsible for the clusterfuck that is the Gulf Oil Spill?

  1. #16
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Eh, Bush tossed out a ton of unqualified permits for drilling, Obama took office and he continued it.

    The funny thing was, despite being ridiculously unsafe and despite numerous citations under Bush, Obama gave the site (presently spewing oil) an award for safety not long before it blew.

    A year in, his buddy Salazar should have completed a review of his department to find out what was going on, but no.. with a lot of Obama it's just continuing the same bad shit that was done before. No change.
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  2. #17
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch View Post
    I believe Mel used the phrase 'God, you liberals are such idiots'. It happens from various quarters in any thread about Obama where I or anyone who doesn't think he sucks wad--we're branded stupid, blind, in denial, things we've said weeks prior are thrown back at us, etc. It's boring and it's not debate. It's just name calling and seeing who can shout the loudest.
    No butty, she was quoting someone else on the internet, that wasn't her.
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    Elite Member cupcake's Avatar
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    When did obama call the president of BP? Maybe yesterday? Not the first day...major mistake. he should have been on the phone day one getting the 411 and what their plans were ...How it could happen, but yet...nothing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1973 View Post



    God but you liberals are idiots. Chris Dodd along with Barney the purple dragon Frank gutted the housing market and you cared not and now the Doddering fool tries to blame Bush for this issue? Your little Nero fiddles while America burns and I have to admit even I am amazed at how inept you nitwits are performing. I was no fan of Bush and you clowns have made him look like an interstellar success.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Eh, Bush tossed out a ton of unqualified permits for drilling, Obama took office and he continued it.

    The funny thing was, despite being ridiculously unsafe and despite numerous citations under Bush, Obama gave the site (presently spewing oil) an award for safety not long before it blew.

    A year in, his buddy Salazar should have completed a review of his department to find out what was going on, but no.. with a lot of Obama it's just continuing the same bad shit that was done before. No change.
    Quote Originally Posted by cupcake View Post
    When did obama call the president of BP? Maybe yesterday? Not the first day...major mistake. he should have been on the phone day one getting the 411 and what their plans were ...How it could happen, but yet...nothing
    See the first quote concerning Mel. That wasn't quoting anyone else, that was her. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but just as some around here say the whole 'racism in teh south' thing is getting old, so is the 'you liberals are stupid because you don't think Obama is an asshole'.

    As far as Obama calling the BP CEO he's addressed that. he specifically said that calling the CEO would be pointless since all he would get were the answers he wants to hear. He'd rather deal with teh people who are actually involved on the ground. It may not be the right decision for some but it's not grandstanding, and grandstanding is not what is needed right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    No butty, she was quoting someone else on the internet, that wasn't her.
    See the first quote up above. That was her, not quoting someone else, unless I completely mis-read it and missed the source of the quote.
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    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Seriously Butt? That's not even mel's style of writing. Its obviously a quote she pulled from elsewhere.
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  6. #21
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Butt, pretty sure you're wrong on that. It doesn't even write like Mel. It's a totally different style. She found a bunch of looney tune quotes on Yahoo over this whole affair, i asked her to start posting the crazier ones because she said they were really nuts. Go back a page or 2.

    \
    As far as Obama calling the BP CEO he's addressed that. he specifically said that calling the CEO would be pointless since all he would get were the answers he wants to hear. He'd rather deal with teh people who are actually involved on the ground. It may not be the right decision for some but it's not grandstanding, and grandstanding is not what is needed right now.
    If he didn't want to hear what he wanted to hear, then why is he STILL relying on BP to supply him with truthful answers? They've lied all along and he's simply nodded and gone with it. BP controls the information, and BP is the culprit. Logic dictates that you get independent assessment of the situation, which is STILL not taking place. There are scientists doing their own independents testing and attempting to get the administration to pay attention to it, but the administration is still toeing BP's line, especially concerning the oil plumes beneath the surface which BP (and of course, the administration) say don't exist... except that was proven wrong today by outside sources.

    BP is controlling the data. BP is controlling media access using the coat guard. BP is running the labs for all the "testing". There is not one iota of information, save for the few enterprising scientists who are trying to get around the BP/administration block, that isn't controleld by BP.

    Hell, even footage of the spewing pipe was kept under wraps from the public, all the while being watched daily by the White House.

    They're in collusion. The worse this looks for BP, the worse it looks for Obama because he's been utterly hands off on the whole affair. That was his mistake, but AGAIN it follows his usual pattern. Sit back, let other people handle it, and when it invariably goes belly up, rush in at the last minute to salvage something out of it.
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  7. #22
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greysfang View Post
    Seriously Butt? That's not even mel's style of writing. Its obviously a quote she pulled from elsewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Butt, pretty sure you're wrong on that. It doesn't even write like Mel. It's a totally different style. She found a bunch of looney tune quotes on Yahoo over this whole affair, i asked her to start posting the crazier ones because she said they were really nuts. Go back a page or 2.

    \

    If he didn't want to hear what he wanted to hear, then why is he STILL relying on BP to supply him with truthful answers? They've lied all along and he's simply nodded and gone with it. BP controls the information, and BP is the culprit. Logic dictates that you get independent assessment of the situation, which is STILL not taking place. There are scientists doing their own independents testing and attempting to get the administration to pay attention to it, but the administration is still toeing BP's line, especially concerning the oil plumes beneath the surface which BP (and of course, the administration) say don't exist... except that was proven wrong today by outside sources.

    BP is controlling the data. BP is controlling media access using the coat guard. BP is running the labs for all the "testing". There is not one iota of information, save for the few enterprising scientists who are trying to get around the BP/administration block, that isn't controleld by BP.

    Hell, even footage of the spewing pipe was kept under wraps from the public, all the while being watched daily by the White House.

    They're in collusion. The worse this looks for BP, the worse it looks for Obama because he's been utterly hands off on the whole affair. That was his mistake, but AGAIN it follows his usual pattern. Sit back, let other people handle it, and when it invariably goes belly up, rush in at the last minute to salvage something out of it.

    Ok, maybe I completely misread Mel's post and it was quoting some loony tune. If so, I'm sorry to Mel for jumping on her. God, just when I'm sick of all of you you start talking sense. Blergh.

    As far as who Obama is talking to and where he's getting his info from, it's not clear. Like I said he's not a bells and whistle kind of guy and he may be doing things we don't know about. Or not. Time will tell.
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  8. #23
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Default The Spill, The Scandal and the President

    On May 27th, more than a month into the worst environmental disaster in U.S. history, Barack Obama strode to the podium in the East Room of the White House. For weeks, the administration had been insisting that BP alone was to blame for the catastrophic oil spill in the Gulf – and the ongoing failure to stop the massive leak. "They have the technical expertise to plug the hole," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs had said only six days earlier. "It is their responsibility." The president, Gibbs added, lacked the authority to play anything more than a supervisory role – a curious line of argument from an administration that has reserved the right to assassinate American citizens abroad and has nationalized much of the auto industry. "If BP is not accomplishing the task, can you just federalize it?" a reporter asked. "No," Gibbs replied.

    Now, however, the president was suddenly standing up to take command of the cleanup effort. "In case you were wondering who's responsible," Obama told the nation, "I take responsibility." Sounding chastened, he acknowledged that his administration had failed to adequately reform the Minerals Management Service, the scandal-ridden federal agency that for years had essentially allowed the oil industry to self-regulate. "There wasn't sufficient urgency," the president said. "Absolutely I take responsibility for that." He also admitted that he had been too credulous of the oil giants: "I was wrong in my belief that the oil companies had their act together when it came to worst-case scenarios." He unveiled a presidential commission to investigate the disaster, discussed the resignation of the head of MMS, and extended a moratorium on new deepwater drilling. "The buck," he reiterated the next day on the sullied Louisiana coastline, "stops with me."


    What didn't stop was the gusher. Hours before the president's press conference, an ominous plume of oil six miles wide and 22 miles long was discovered snaking its way toward Mobile Bay from BP's wellhead next to the wreckage of its Deepwater Horizon rig. Admiral Thad Allen, the U.S. commander overseeing the cleanup, framed the spill explicitly as an invasion: "The enemy is coming ashore," he said.

    Louisiana beaches were assaulted by blobs of oil that began to seep beneath the sand; acres of marshland at the "Bird's Foot," where the Mississippi meets the Gulf, were befouled by shit-brown crude – a death sentence for wetlands that serve as the cradle for much of the region's vital marine life. By the time Obama spoke, it was increasingly evident that this was not merely an ecological disaster. It was the most devastating assault on American soil since 9/11.

    Like the attacks by Al Qaeda, the disaster in the Gulf was preceded by ample warnings – yet the administration had ignored them. Instead of cracking down on MMS, as he had vowed to do even before taking office, Obama left in place many of the top officials who oversaw the agency's culture of corruption. He permitted it to rubber-stamp dangerous drilling operations by BP – a firm with the worst safety record of any oil company – with virtually no environmental safeguards, using industry-friendly regulations drafted during the Bush years. He calibrated his response to the Gulf spill based on flawed and misleading estimates from BP – and then deployed his top aides to lowball the flow rate at a laughable 5,000 barrels a day, long after the best science made clear this catastrophe would eclipse the Exxon Valdez.



    Hours after BP’s rig sank on April 22nd, a white board in NOAA's "war room" in Seattle displays the administration's initial, worst-case estimate of the spill — 64,000 to 110,000 barrels a day.



    Even after the president's press conference, Rolling Stone has learned, the administration knew the spill could be far worse than its "best estimate" acknowledged. That same day, the president's Flow Rate Technical Group – a team of scientists charged with establishing the gusher's output – announced a new estimate of 12,000 to 25,000 barrels, based on calculations from video of the plume. In fact, according to interviews with team members and scientists familiar with its work, that figure represents the plume group's minimum estimate. The upper range was not included in their report because scientists analyzing the flow were unable to reach a consensus on how bad it could be. "The upper bound from the plume group, if it had come out, is very high," says Timothy Crone, a marine geophysicist at Columbia University who has consulted with the government's team. "That's why they had resistance internally. We're talking 100,000 barrels a day."


    The median figure for Crone's independent calculations is 55,000 barrels a day – the equivalent of an Exxon Valdez every five days. "That's what the plume team's numbers show too," Crone says. A source privy to internal discussions at one of the world's top oil companies confirms that the industry privately agrees with such estimates. "The industry definitely believes the higher-end values," the source says. "That's accurate – if not more than that." The reason, he adds, is that BP appears to have unleashed one of the 10 most productive wells in the Gulf. "BP screwed up a really big, big find," the source says. "And if they can't cap this, it's not going to blow itself out anytime soon."


    Even worse, the "moratorium" on drilling announced by the president does little to prevent future disasters. The ban halts exploratory drilling at only 33 deepwater operations, shutting down less than one percent of the total wells in the Gulf. Interior Secretary Ken Salazar, the Cabinet-level official appointed by Obama to rein in the oil industry, boasts that "the moratorium is not a moratorium that will affect production" – which continues at 5,106 wells in the Gulf, including 591 in deep water.

    Most troubling of all, the government has allowed BP to continue deep-sea production at its Atlantis rig – one of the world's largest oil platforms. Capable of drawing 200,000 barrels a day from the seafloor, Atlantis is located only 150 miles off the coast of Louisiana, in waters nearly 2,000 feet deeper than BP drilled at Deepwater Horizon. According to congressional documents, the platform lacks required engineering certification for as much as 90 percent of its subsea components – a flaw that internal BP documents reveal could lead to "catastrophic" errors. In a May 19th letter to Salazar, 26 congressmen called for the rig to be shut down immediately. "We are very concerned," they wrote, "that the tragedy at Deepwater Horizon could foreshadow an accident at BP Atlantis."

    The administration's response to the looming threat? According to an e-mail to a congressional aide from a staff member at MMS, the agency has had "zero contact" with Atlantis about its safety risks since the Deepwater rig went down.


    The Spill, The Scandal and the President | Rolling Stone Politics

    It's a long piece, the rest is at the link.



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  9. #24
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    It's very clear. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) is still toeing BP's official line about there not being any oil plumes because BP says there isn't.

    There is no independent testing going on, ASIDE from the enterprising scientists doing it of their own accord. Thankfully, the media is FINALLY cluing in and BP has been proven to be lying yet again.

    to whit:

    “The oil is on the surface,” Tony Hayward, BP’s chief executive, said last week. “There aren’t any plumes.”

    Descriptions of the plumes from the two groups of scientists are filling in details of one of the most remarkable findings to come from the disaster: the realization that much of the oil in a deepwater blowout may remain below the surface.

    The scientists say the plumes are not bubbles of oil, as many people have imagined them, but consist of highly dispersed or dissolved hydrocarbons. In some spots, enough oil is present to discolor the water, but in most places, water samples come up clear. Yet the dissolved hydrocarbons show up vividly on instruments, and they can be smelled in some samples.

    “This so-called invisible oil, which people tend to have a hard time grasping, is detectable clearly using analytical methods,” said Ernst Peebles, a University of South Florida oceanographer who helped carry out the research.

    Tests Confirm Spreading Oil Plumes in the Gulf - NYTimes.com

    Jane Lubchenco, Obama's appointee as head of NOAA has, until just a few days ago, been backing up Tony Hayward's no plumes lie. Dr. Lubchenco, actually an heretofore solid scientist, has been co-opted or has otherwise been pulled aboard the BP/Obama bandwagon by her friend, the industry shill Ken Salazar.

    Lubchenco had been claiming, counter to her own researchers, that "all evidence is circumstantial". Boy, if the BP/Obama team were as good at stopping the flow of oil as they are at stopping the flow of information the fucking thing would be plugged already.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    I can't post Jon Stewart videos, but here he is ripping the situation at the 3:00 mark:


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    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch View Post
    I'm not completely blaming Bush and co. but there is responsibility there. What annoys me more that whenever there is an attempt to discuss any of this anyone who doesn't agree that Obama is the devil incarnate is branded stupid and a bot. It's like those morons who are beating their chests for Obama to show more emotion and play to the audience. I'd rather he kept it shut and did some work. I don't need bells and whistles. I'll wait and see how it plays out.
    I agree with you.

    What Bush and Cheney and their oil buddies did for eight years was to discourage alternative sources of energy and to bash conservation. That led us into drill, baby, drill.
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    What does that have to do with what's happening now? Not trying to be rude.

  13. #28
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yeah, and 1 year of drill, baby, drill under Obama who simply continued the exact same policies
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  14. #29
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch View Post
    Liberals are idiots? Nice. According to Mel, Grimm, with and a few others if anyone defends Obama or doesn't slap him with blanket condemnation they're stupid. No room for seeing the finer points in things, just stupid liberals who know nothing. Who knew.
    they are quotes from other websites that were amusing me... jesus, you need to calm the fuck down. I think I was accused of being sensitive and hysterical about people saying things about the south... guess I'm not the only one who gets that way,....
    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch View Post
    I believe Mel used the phrase 'God, you liberals are such idiots'. It happens from various quarters in any thread about Obama where I or anyone who doesn't think he sucks wad--we're branded stupid, blind, in denial, things we've said weeks prior are thrown back at us, etc. It's boring and it's not debate. It's just name calling and seeing who can shout the loudest.
    No, the fuck I didn't. But it does suck when you read something that makes it appear that someone is brushing a whole demographic with the same brush, don't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch View Post
    Ok, maybe I completely misread Mel's post and it was quoting some loony tune. If so, I'm sorry to Mel for jumping on her. God, just when I'm sick of all of you you start talking sense. Blergh.

    As far as who Obama is talking to and where he's getting his info from, it's not clear. Like I said he's not a bells and whistle kind of guy and he may be doing things we don't know about. Or not. Time will tell.
    Yes, you misread it. But that's ok, I won't hold it against you.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1973 View Post
    they are quotes from other websites that were amusing me... jesus, you need to calm the fuck down. I think I was accused of being sensitive and hysterical about people saying things about the south... guess I'm not the only one who gets that way,....

    No, the fuck I didn't. But it does suck when you read something that makes it appear that someone is brushing a whole demographic with the same brush, don't it?

    Yes, you misread it. But that's ok, I won't hold it against you.
    Ok, ok, you're right. Everyone has their sensitive spot and I guess I was pretty surprised that you, who is generally pretty even handed in your opinions and insults, went that far. But glad to know you won't hold it against me. Now, when does someone apologize for saying I post stuff in order to call the south racist? Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?
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