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Thread: Breaking! Federal judge ORDERS Obama admin to immediately halt DADT discharges

  1. #31
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Even worse.. their backup plan if DAT repeal is somehow forced down their throats is separate baracks, fighting units.. everything.

    Segregated military.

    Just like in the 40's with blacks.
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  2. #32
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    Court ruling or no, gay troops know not to tell

    Court ruling or no, gay troops know not to tell - Yahoo! News

    ANNAPOLIS, Md. When word came down of a judge's ruling that gays could serve openly in the military, an Air Force officer received joyous congratulations from a comrade. Realizing there was someone in the room who didn't know his sexual orientation, the officer pretended it was a joke and laughed it off.

    He figured it was too soon and too risky to celebrate.

    On Friday, the Pentagon agreed, warning gay troops that in this "legally uncertain environment," coming out now could have "adverse consequences for themselves or others." The warning came a day after the Obama administration asked a federal judge in California to stay her ruling overturning the Clinton-era "don't ask, don't tell" policy while the government prepares an appeal.

    Like the Air Force officer, many gay service members interviewed by The Associated Press didn't need to ask if it was OK to tell.

    "I'm not coming out yet because of the repercussions I might get," said an Army specialist at Fort Bragg, N.C., who, like others reached by the AP, did not want his name used. "I've got a year and a half left ... and I don't want just one day of me coming out to destroy all of what I worked for. I still want my benefits. I still want the military to pay for my college when I get out."

    On Tuesday, U.S. District Judge Virginia Phillips ordered the Pentagon to stop enforcing the 17-year-old ban on openly gay troops. The military promised to abide by the order as long as it remains in place, but gay rights advocates cautioned service members to avoid revealing their sexuality in the meantime.

    The Air Force officer was at work on his military computer when news of Phillips' ruling flashed up on CNN. A friend who knew his secret ran in and said, "You can come out of the closet now."

    "I had to push him out and kind of laugh it off with the other person there in the office," the officer recalled. "It made me really, really nervous at first, because my first thought was, `Oh, crap. I just was outed, and I know that the policy is probably coming back. What do I do?'"

    For the rest of the day, the officer co-founder of a support group called OutServe was worried some other friend might inadvertently say something. He wondered if he should go home until things calmed down.

    Then he thought to himself: "This is probably happening across other bases as well."

    President Barack Obama has made it clear that he wants the policy to end on his watch. But he wants Congress to make the change, not the courts. And when or even if that might happen is unclear. Repeal legislation has passed the House but run into Republican resistance in the Senate.


    Under the 1993 law, the military cannot inquire into service members' sexual orientation and punish them for it as long as they keep it to themselves.

    Jarrod Chlapowski, co-founder of Servicemembers United, said his office has received dozens of calls from closeted gay military members since Tuesday's ruling.

    "We've had people calling us asking us, `What should I do? Can I come out now?'" said Chlapowski, a former U.S. Army Korean linguist who decided not to re-enlist because of the policy. "All the organizations, including ours, are cautioning service members not to come out of the closet, because everything is still in flux. This injunction could be stayed or not be stayed and it probably will be stayed. We just don't know when."

    Even before Phillips issued her order, the Air Force had agreed to delay the discharge of Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach.

    An F-15 fighter pilot from Mountain Home Air Force Base in Idaho who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, Fehrenbach sued in August to block his discharge. Given his legal challenge, he said he doubts the Air Force will be able to discharge him before his retirement next year, but he wants to see the policy buried for the sake of others.

    "Ever since this started in May 2008, ever since my discharge hearing in April 2009, ever since I went public, I've been in the same squadron, doing the same job, with same people, with absolutely no detrimental effect to morale, good order and discipline, or unit cohesion," he said Friday.

    "My presence every day here at work proves 'don't ask, don't tell' is obsolete," he said. "I'm living in a post-don't ask-don't tell world already."

    Emboldened by the court ruling, Omar Lopez discharged from the Navy in 2006 after admitting his gay status to his military doctor walked into an Army recruiting office in Austin, Texas, this week and asked if he could re-enlist. He was up front, even showing the recruiters his Navy discharge papers. He was turned away.

    "They just said, `I can't let you re-enlist because we haven't got anything down from the chain of command,'" Lopez, 29, told the AP in a telephone interview. "They were courteous and apologetic, but they couldn't help me."

    Dan Woods, the lead attorney in the Log Cabin Republicans' case that led to the injunction, sent a letter to the Justice Department, suggesting that recruiters who turn away gays could be cited for contempt.

    In a court filing Friday, Woods said the Obama administration has given the federal judge no good reason to temporarily freeze her order, and the government should be ashamed for seeking to preserve the policy.

    Government attorneys are asking Judge Phillips for a temporary stay on the ruling while it appeals.

    Woods' client, the Log Cabin Republicans, won the injunction after suing the government to stop the enforcement of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

    The Defense Department has said it will comply with Phillips' order for now.

    The soldier from Fort Bragg said he believes the ban is on its way out. But until then, he plans to continue "living a lie."

    "The day that that does happen, then that's when I'll walk out of the darkness and say, `This is who I am. I've been serving my country for seven years, and I've done it just fine being who I am,'" said the 23-year-old, who returned last weekend from a nine-month tour in Iraq. "I just want to shout out to America to open your eyes and know we DO serve America. We DO fight for your freedom."

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by CornFlakegrl View Post
    It was a GOP group that got DODT stopped (for now).

    We really need to stop this party bullshit and look at the person (or in this case group of persons). Our "leaders" have forgotten that and simply bang the party drum and/or do what protects the party FIRST. Voters do the same thing when they insist on casting the parties in "good v. evil" roles. Ensuring you'll vote for whomever (regardless of qualifications, track record, etc etc) simply because he wears the good guy cape.

    Anyway, maybe there is some truth to Obama's argument that he's setting this up. Afterall, appeal means it goes to the Supreme Court. If/when they rule DADT is unconstitutional isn't that more permanent (i.e. no other appeals)?
    Log Cabin Republicans helped to get the DODT stopped, but they don't speak for Republicans as a whole. Really, as bad as Obama is on gay rights, the GOP as a whole (and especially their leadership) is far worse. They wanted a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and many of them are fighting domestic partnerships as well as gay marriage.

    I agree that we should look at individual track records, but tell me: what person running for major office on the Republican ticket looks even slightly sane.
    Tea baggers want to fight the Man because the Man doesn't look like them.

  4. #34
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visitor42 View Post
    Log Cabin Republicans helped to get the DODT stopped, but they don't speak for Republicans as a whole. Really, as bad as Obama is on gay rights, the GOP as a whole (and especially their leadership) is far worse. They wanted a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage and many of them are fighting domestic partnerships as well as gay marriage.

    I agree that we should look at individual track records, but tell me: what person running for major office on the Republican ticket looks even slightly sane.

    1) It's DADT, not DODT.

    2) Obama is fighting DADT and DOMA in court, ENDA is dead, and UAFA is nowhere to be found. The GOP isn't worse. Right now, both are the same.

    3) Nobody in the GOP looks sane... but nobody in the Dem party is looking any better except at maybe the local level. The Fed Dems are just as bigoted.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  5. #35
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    what is the motivation behind this? i just dont get it.

  6. #36
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    (Thanks Obama, our hero...errrr, never mind)

    Military recruiters told to accept gay applicants - Yahoo! News

    WASHINGTON A Pentagon spokeswoman says recruiters have been told that they must accept gay applicants, following a federal court decision striking down the ban on gays serving openly in the military.

    Spokeswoman Cynthia Smith said Tuesday that top-level guidance has been issued to recruiting commands informing them that the military's "don't ask, don't tell" rule has been suspended for now. Recruiters also have been told to inform potential recruits that the moratorium could be reversed at any point.

    Last week, a federal judge ordered the military to stop enforcing the 1993 law banning openly gay service members. The Justice Department is appealing the decision and has asked for a temporary stay.

  7. #37
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    Judicial Battle Continues Over Repeal of Openly-Gay Military Service Ban | USA | English

    The U.S. Defense Department says it has told military recruiters to begin processing applications from potential recruits who state they are homosexual. Tuesday's announcement was in response to a court order by a federal judge who suspended the Pentagon's policy that requires homosexual service members to keep their sexual orientation a secret, and bans recruiters and commanders from asking about it. Meanwhile, the judge has indicated that she will turn down the Obama administration's request for a stay of last week's ruling that ended the expulsion of gays from the U.S. military. President Barack Obama now finds himself in a paradox; urging Congress to repeal the law, while defending it in court.

    Enacted in 1993, the law known as "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" allows homosexuals to serve in the U.S. armed forces as long as their sexuality remains secret. President Barack Obama says the law is discriminatory and detrimental to national security, as it has led to the expulsion of more than 14,000 military personnel

    "This policy will end, and it will end on my watch," said President Obama.

    Last week, a federal judge found "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" unconstitutional, and ordered the military to halt all investigations and discharges of gay service members. Civil-rights groups urged the White House to accept the ruling and decline to appeal, effectively killing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

    But President Obama says he is duty-bound to defend existing laws in court - even laws he wants to end. "I do have an obligation to make sure I am following the rules. I cannot simply ignore laws that are out there. I have to make sure they are changed."

    And the path to change, according to the president, is through Congress.

    The House of Representatives already has voted to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" - but just weeks ago the U.S. Senate failed to overcome a Republican filibuster of a defense bill that included repeal of the law.

    The White House continues to insist the law will end, but sources on Capitol Hill are not so sure. A spokesperson for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said there are "no guarantees" the votes will materialize to repeal the law in a post-election session of Congress or next year, when Republicans are expected to have more seats in both chambers.

    Arizona Republican Senator John McCain, who led the procedural maneuver blocking debate on ending "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" last month, has pledged to do so again in December. "Absolutely. I will filibuster or stop it from being brought up."

    Congressional observer Norman Ornstein of the American Enterprise Institute doubts Senate Democrats will overcome another filibuster in the so-called "lame duck" session of Congress.

    "There simply will not be the time or the inclination to take this all the way to the limit," said Ornstein. "And so I suspect we are going to have to wait for another day to see a real resolution of the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' question."

    In fact, some advocates for gay service members fear the best chance for repealing the law may be over.

    Servicemembers United director, Alex Nicholson, is a former Army intelligence specialist and Arabic linguist who was discharged under "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in 2002.

    Nicholson believes President Obama genuinely wants to change the law, but has not been aggressive enough in fighting for it. But Nicholson has not abandoned hope entirely, noting that a Pentagon study on the impact of repealing the law is due in December.

    "Although we are not as optimistic about getting repeal of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' in the next Congress, one thing we will have on our side is this [Pentagon] report," said Nicholson. "And so if in the next Congress we tackle 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell,' we will have a road map from the military laying out all the issues they may have to deal with, with existing contingency plans for dealing with those issues."

    Nicholson hopes the report will allay concerns among moderate Republicans in the Senate who say the ban is unjust, but nonetheless voted to sustain last month's filibuster.
    Nicholson also said he would prefer President Obama not defend "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in court.

    Georgetown University constitutional law professor Susan Bloch says, however, the president's hands are tied. "It is the tradition that the administration will defend the law in most cases. And the challenge in the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" law is a challenge of the individual rights of the service members, not a constitutional challenge to executive power."

    Meanwhile, the United States is witnessing, and the U.S. military is experiencing, the de facto halt of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" law.

    For years, defenders of the policy predicted chaos and dissension in the armed forces if gay discharges were halted. A Pentagon spokesman said Monday that no disciplinary problems or mass-resignations have been reported since last week's judicial injunction.

    Public-opinion polls show roughly three-fourths of Americans support allowing gays to serve openly in the military.

  8. #38
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Ok,. where to start..

    "Although we are not as optimistic about getting repeal of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' in the next Congress, one thing we will have on our side is this [Pentagon] report," said Nicholson. "And so if in the next Congress we tackle 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell,' we will have a road map from the military laying out all the issues they may have to deal with, with existing contingency plans for dealing with those issues."
    1) DADT is gone as of now. The biased, bigoted and homophobic "report" IS NOT NECESSARY ANYMORE. Furthermore, the report was designed, built and used to generate ONE answer: gays make soldiers (and their families) feel icky

    2) A "legislative" repeal IS NOT NECESSARY ANYMORE. The court killed it. All you have to do is NOT APPEAL.. however, Obama is still doing that because he's a fucking asshole.

    3) Parse that paragraph.. contingency plans.. things we may have to deal with.. that's codespeak for segregated service.

    Georgetown University constitutional law professor Susan Bloch says, however, the president's hands are tied. "It is the tradition that the administration will defend the law in most cases. And the challenge in the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" law is a challenge of the individual rights of the service members, not a constitutional challenge to executive power."
    1) Yes, in MOST cases but not all cases. Obama has decided to not defend many a law in his time, just like every other president, when it suits his purposes.

    2) The only way the executive is bound to defend any law is if it views said law to he constitutional. Obama and his spokesbitches absolutely REFUSE to answer the question on whether the President thinks DADT is or not. Even point blank, they simply refuse. That tells you everything.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  9. #39
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    You know this president.

    Wants to have it both ways. Always.

    He cares more about his image and not offending all his bases. If this was towards the end of his second term, no doubt he might have, MIGHT have, done something more defining. Certainly not now as critical elections are being held, and halfway towards another re-election bid.

    He's smooth though. Let the courts do all the work, take the heat, take the fall, etc. Keep his hands clean, say the right things on such a political hot potatoe.

    But at the same time he can now claim these things happened on his watch. And that's enough for his supporters and future voters.

    Change baby!

  10. #40
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    Gays in military: U.S. seeks end to "don't ask" injunction against military - latimes.com

    The motion calls on the appeals court to lift a judge's order immediately. The government says the 'extraordinary decision' went too far, too fast and is causing 'confusion and uncertainty' in the Pentagon and among gays and lesbians in the ranks.

    By David G. Savage, Tribune Washington Bureau

    10:40 AM PDT, October 20, 2010

    The Justice Department on Wednesday asked a federal appeals court in San Francisco to quickly set aside a judge's order that bars enforcement of the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy, saying the judge's "extraordinary decision" went too far, too fast.

    The 25-page motion says the appeals court should lift the judge's order Wednesday.

    U.S. District Judge Virginia Phillips in Southern California, acting on a suit brought by the Log Cabin Republicans, declared the "don't ask" policy unconstitutional last month. On Oct. 12, she then ordered the Pentagon to stopping enforcing the policy, which it did.

    The Justice Department said it has a duty to defend the laws enacted by Congress, even though President Obama is urging Congress to repeal the law and to allow openly gay men and women to serve in the military.

    The government said the "sweeping injunction against a duly enacted Act of Congress" was wrong as a matter of law. It is "at odds with basic principles of judicial restraint requiring courts to limit injunctive relief to the parties before the court, and is contrary to decisions of other courts, which have sustained the constitutionality of the statute."

    Moreover, the judge's order suspending enforcement of the military's "don't ask" policy has caused "confusion and uncertainty" at the Pentagon and among gays and lesbians in the ranks, the government said.

    If an appeals court reverses the judge and affirms the constitutionality of the law, it "would create tremendous uncertainty about the status of service members who may reveal their sexual orientation in reliance" on the judge's order suspending the law, the government said.

    For all these reasons, it said a three-judge panel should issue an emergency order lifting the injunction.

    If the 9th Circuit refuses to lift the judge's order, the government could then seek an emergency stay from the U.S. Supreme Court.

  11. #41
    Elite Member Mr. Authority's Avatar
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    I just feel like this thing will go in limbo until everyone isn't looking at it anymore, then the DADT policy will be made anew and no one will notice or care. *sigh*

  12. #42
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    too far, too fast LOL

    Yes, equality is big and scary.. it's too far, and too fast for the people who aren't being oppressed, but who gives a shit about those under its yolk

    Fucking pathetic


    EDIT: seems the 9th circuit has reinstated DADT per Obama's request. OBAMA HAS DADT REINSTATED. This is his shit now. It could have stayed dead, but no. Obama has reinstated bigotry.

    Less than 24 hours after a federal judge refused to block an injunction against "don't ask, don't tell," the U.S. court of appeals for the ninth circuit has done so — at least temporarily.

    A three-judge panel with the ninth circuit ordered a stay requested by the Justice Department "temporarily in order to provide this court with an opportunity to consider fully the issues presented." Attorneys representing the Log Cabin Republicans may file an opposition to the stay by next Monday, the court ruled.

    Earlier in the day, the Department of Justice asked the ninth circuit to rule before the end of day Wednesday on U.S. district judge Virginia A. Phillips's rejection of its request for a stay of her worldwide injunction on the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.

    “We respectfully request that the Court enter an administrative stay by today October 20, 2010, pending this Court’s resolution of the government’s motion for a stay pending appeal, which would maintain the status quo that prevailed before the district court’s decision while the Court considers the government’s stay motion,” said the filing.

    The Log Cabin Republicans issued the following statement Wednesday on the Justice Department's request to the ninth circuit:

    "It has been eight days since the Department of Defense has suspended enforcement of the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' policy, and there has been no evidence of any adverse consequences," Log Cabin Republicans deputy executive director Christian Berle said. "Log Cabin Republicans believes that the Department of Justice is seriously underestimating the professional capacity of our brave servicemembers in continuing under a military that allows open service by gays and lesbians. We are prepared to defend this injunction and this ruling in whatever court or forum in which we are challenged."

    Attorneys representing the Log Cabin Republicans vigorously fought the government's request for a stay. "Each argument that the government asserts as a basis for a stay has already been raised in a district court, which rejected them all — not cursorily, or in passing at an oral argument, but in extensive reasoned opoinions at multiple stages of the proceedings below," attorney Dan Woods wrote Wednesday.

    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_N...mmediate_Stay/
    Last edited by Grimmlok; October 20th, 2010 at 06:37 PM.
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  13. #43
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    What about those who already enlisted?

    What a cluster f**k.

  14. #44
    Super Moderator Tati's Avatar
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    This is so ridiculous. I feel like shaking someone and screaming, "it doesn't have to be this fucking complicated!"
    If you reveal your secrets to the wind you should not blame the wind for revealing them to the trees.

    - Kahlil Gibran

  15. #45
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    It's not. Obama is just an asshole.

    DADT was dead for 7 days. The sky didn't fall. Society didn't crumble. Gays raped zero soldiers.

    Obama chose to get it reinstated.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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