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Thread: Blacks and Latinos back California gay marriage ban

  1. #91
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Bratty, cantankerous, crotchety, contrary...throw some more out. I'm entitled to what you perceive as moods. Just because I say I don't want to move to another country because, even with its flaws, the one I am in where I want to be, doesn't mean you shouldn't feel the same way about yours.

    I'm in my office, so I am already in my room, technically. What next, my dessert will be taken away?

    I don't have a personal problem with anyone on this this board or this thread. How could I. I don't know any of you personally, nor you me.

    It passed. People, from all backgrounds, voted to pass it. It's done, for now anyway.

    File the lawsuits. Move it through the courts. Educate the very people who voted against marriage rights. Bring the propaganda spreaders to the limelight.

    Sincerely, good luck.



  2. #92
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    It shouldn't have been on a ballot in the first place, hopefully it will get totally nullified as a result of the new lawsuit
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  3. #93
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    It had every right to be put to the voting public on a ballot. Checks and balances are in place to oversee situations in which the public consensus is not correct.



  4. #94
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Civil rights and amending the constitution of a state, legally, are not supposed to be up for majority vote according to the new lawsuit.

    There are a number of steps it has to go through, which it apparently didn't.

    Lastly, deciding civil rights with a public majority vote is braindead. It's stupid. It has no place being done because nobody would ever get rights with a majority tyranny.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  5. #95
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Lastly, deciding civil rights with a public majority vote is braindead. It's stupid. It has no place being done because nobody would ever get rights with a majority tyranny.
    it's insane how many people have a skewed understanding of what democracy even means. it is not, contrary to popular opinion, tyranny of the majority. there are checks and balances put in place not just to keep government accountable, but to prevent the majority from oppressing minorities, directly or indirectly. majorities can be (and often are) wrong.
    desegregation had to be forced on an unwilling majority. if you'd put it up to a vote, it never would have happened...
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  6. #96
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    ^ exactly!

    Oh but now I can't say that because black people feel we're co-opting THEIR precious battle or some other stupid crap.

    Rights are rights, period.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #97
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter what blacks or latinos feel. Gays have to battle the white majority, not the ethnic minorities. We don't feel you are co-opting the civil rights movement. The foundations are viewed differently across all lines, as Prop 8 pointed out.

    Segregation laws were in place and it took decades to get them repealed. If you want to compare the two movements, you should also look at the time frames. One hundred years after the Em Proc, blacks received rights. Gays have to be realistic and know this is not going to be a short battle and may not be successful.

    Maybe because I am not gay, I can never see the true feeling gays have due to being denied marriage. What I can see is that no one gets to have everything they think their "rights" entitle them to. Society draws lines and sometimes those lines are going to cut out a sector.



  8. #98
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Gays have been waiting since the dawn of time.

    Blacks got nothin on us.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  9. #99
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Why exactly have you been waiting since the dawn of time? Excellent point, that gays have not been given full rights until the twenty-first century, and even now in very few venues. Why? Has every society, past and present, had absolutely no reason to refuse those rights?

    Less than five percent of the countries in the world legalized gay marriage. Even in history, while openly accepted in some societies, gay marriages were not allowed.

    You can say blacks have nothing on you. I agree, being black and being gay have absolutely nothing in common as it pertains to rights.



  10. #100
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    That's not what I said.

    I said blacks got nothin on us, as in we've been oppressed since the dawn of time and you guys.. what, a few hundred years, when you weren't enslaving each other back in africa in tribal wars, before whitey showed up and industrialized the process?

    Black, gay, short, tall, trying to restrict rights or deny them based on something unchangeable in the person is the same thing.

    It's all civil rights. Your battle was no more special than anybody elses, get over it, we're all on the same planet and in the same boat, etc etc etc.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  11. #101
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    That is exactly how I see your battle, as different and not special in the least. You aren't enslaved. You aren't special. Stop acting like it. Being obnoxious to those who didn't even vote against you isn't going to get either side anywhere.

    You want it? Fight for it! Don't go after the ones who did nothing to hinder your progress and can not push forward for you.

    Oh, there were differences, which gays obviously wish to ignore because they don't support this.

    Gay marriage has not been accepted in hardly any civilizations. Blacks were being denied rights after having been forced to come to a country, then freed, leaving them in limbo. Excuse me, but being attracted to your own gender isn't the same.

    You get over it.

    We have to share the planet, but gays have been around probably since the first generation and still aren't accepted by the majority of the world, which encompasses many beliefs.

    I have already stated I believe being gay is an innate trait. Proving that in a court of law is something entirely different. I can prove my skin color is innate, even if changeable.



  12. #102
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    It doesn't matter what blacks or latinos feel. Gays have to battle the white majority, not the ethnic minorities. We don't feel you are co-opting the civil rights movement. The foundations are viewed differently across all lines, as Prop 8 pointed out.
    You do realize that California is a minority-majority state, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Gay marriage has not been accepted in hardly any civilizations.
    I'd like to see some examples of this please.

  13. #103
    Gold Member ymeman's Avatar
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    I'm really not worried about the 'other civilizations'...Native American cultures were apparently accepting of gay people, it's American at root.

  14. #104
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yes they were. In fact, they were quite revered. The term "two-spirited" was their label.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  15. #105
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Let me rephrase my prior statement. In the current world landscape, less than ten countries, out of three hundred, have given gays the right to marry and have it be acknowledged by the government as a legally binding union.

    Spiritual and symbolic unions are not the issue here. You can have those. We're talking about legally recognized marriages, correct?I don't think commitment ceremonies, handfastings, other legally unrecognized unions were what the gays were fighting for. I don't care if the Mesopotamians threw five day union celebrations for gay couples, that won't help you today.

    Sorry, but what the Native Americans, Greeks, Romans, or whoever did not frown upon has jack to do with the situation now.



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