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Thread: Blacks and Latinos back California gay marriage ban

  1. #76
    Silver Member GreenEyedFairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maribou View Post
    I'm kind of shocked that someone would think coming to Canada is trading down. What's that all about?
    Um, that's about being childish, I'd say

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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSDiva View Post
    I usually like and agree with Jasmyne Cannick's articles and blogs, but this one notsomuch!
    i don't know this lady but i'm glad to hear she's more reasonable on other subjects. because here, she just comes off as a resentful bitch with a massive chip on her shoulder.

    Quote Originally Posted by ymeman View Post
    I appreciate her efforts to explain the role of the church because I don't think that 'white America' really understands this too well. But I feel she's seeing 'either/or' where it really is 'both'.
    i agree, the religion bit was the only part of her article that kind of made sense.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  3. #78
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    Some of Jasmyne Cannick's writings are proactive..she picketed a R. Kelly concert, she talked about homophobia etc.. Those are the things I liked about her. Her racist ignorant bullshit pisses me off, but even more so since she's a triple minority...she is a woman, she's black, and she's a lesbian...cant be one without the other Jasmyne! I was thinking about Christians who are against gay marriage. I wonder if they really read their Bible. It states that God made Eve and Adam, but most Christians forget that Adam and Eve's kids had incestuous relationships to populate the world! There goes your whole sanctity, rib, men4women ONLY BULLSHIT!


    I don''t know if she really fucked the board though. Maybe just put the tip in. -Mrs. Dark

  4. #79
    Elite Member Shinola's Avatar
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    The logic of Jasmyne Cannick's article is hard for me to follow, because some of the core assumptions behind it go unstated, in my opinion. What she seems to be saying is that a large number of people in black communities do not approve of gays, and that this disapproval is in fact justified by religion. She implies that the bias against gays is therefore "natural."

    She also is saying more overtly that nonwhite, or at least black, gays and lesbians do not care about the marriage issue--I'll have to take her word on that.

    Then apparently she is saying that white gays owe black voters some kind of justification for why they would need to overcome this "natural" and totally acceptable bias against gays in general and gay marriage rights.

    She does say more clearly that to many black voters, gay rights are not civil rights.

    I would say that she seems to think that "civil rights" is a term that belongs specifically to American blacks. But it doesn't--as we know, it is a far more general term.

    Since she never comes right out and says that she believes that it is natural and right for many blacks to be uninterested in the rights of gays, nor makes an attempt to really justify homophobia or intolerance, we are left to guess at the reasoning for why some blacks believe gay civil rights do not equate with black civil rights. She mentions religion, which we probably all assume is a factor in this issue, but she also gets at the notion of class--an oversimplified view of class, in that she seems to equate race and class. (Even though race and class can overlap greatly, they are not one and the same.) She is implying that black voters believe that gay marriage is a right desired by, say, wealthy yuppie gay men living in San Francisco's affluent neighborhoods like the Castro, and it is not a right desired by, say, minority gay men living in the Mission District, or in Oakland, or some of the really down-and-out parts of LA. She implies that until there is more parity for blacks, gays don't deserve the right to marry, as if that right is not as basic. I can sympathize with that idea emotionally, since it seems to arise from anger that I think is understandable, but there is no logical basis for it.

    Anyway, sorry to go on at such length. I just found reading that article like entering a thick cloud, and I'm trying to make my way out of it. *frowns*
    Posted from my fucking iPhone

  5. #80
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinola View Post

    Since she never comes right out and says that she believes that it is natural and right for many blacks to be uninterested in the rights of gays, nor makes an attempt to really justify homophobia or intolerance, we are left to guess at the reasoning for why some blacks believe gay civil rights do not equate with black civil rights. She mentions religion, which we probably all assume is a factor in this issue, but she also gets at the notion of class--an oversimplified view of class, in that she seems to equate race and class. (Even though race and class can overlap greatly, they are not one and the same.) She is implying that black voters believe that gay marriage is a right desired by, say, wealthy yuppie gay men living in San Francisco's affluent neighborhoods like the Castro, and it is not a right desired by, say, minority gay men living in the Mission District, or in Oakland, or some of the really down-and-out parts of LA. She implies that until there is more parity for blacks, gays don't deserve the right to marry, as if that right is not as basic. I can sympathize with that idea emotionally, since it seems to arise from anger that I think is understandable, but there is no logical basis for it.
    Excellent point, I think that is what is happening. To me I get the sense that for her and others, that campaigning for and electing an African American president is mutually incompatible with voting against proposition 8. Again I do not understand the logic or reason behind this at all.

    I think there's a couple of things happening here. One is that I believe she may be angered at reports and news that a high percentage of Blacks did in fact vote for proposition 8. And I certainly understand and sympathize with her if she felt that such reports were singling out Blacks in a negative light. We are all human and regardless of our race, ethnicity, or whatever, if we perceive rightly or wrongly that our group is being singled out, it is human nature to be offended.

    Another is this whole controversy and whatnot may have distracted somewhat from the overwhelming historical moment of electing Barrack Obama, at least in California. Perhaps that causes a lot of resentment and anger too, also understandable.

    That said I still don't buy her arguments and reasons. But as Shinola excellently points out, it's unfortunate some think that proposition 8 is exclusively against gay white affluent males in places like the Castro district, and that it has no impact or bearing on other gay couples outside of those demographics.

  6. #81
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    Idaho Donates $400K to Pass Gay Marriage Ban there are tons of mormons and bigots in idaho.

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    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maribou View Post
    I'm kind of shocked that someone would think coming to Canada is trading down. What's that all about?
    Everything I want, I have right here. Moving from here to another country would find me giving up what I have and what I know I can attain, hence I would be trading down to go anywhere else.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenEyedFairy View Post
    Um, that's about being childish, I'd say
    Your opinion. Nothing more.



  8. #83
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Um, you can take your stuff WITH you . Also, one would hope you'd do some research before going to another country so you know what you can and cant accomplish
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  9. #84
    Silver Member GreenEyedFairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Everything I want, I have right here. Moving from here to another country would find me giving up what I have and what I know I can attain, hence I would be trading down to go anywhere else.



    Your opinion. Nothing more.
    Yes, my opinion. Did I say it was something more?!

    Btw. I don't really think you can judge other countries if you didn't even live anywhere else.

  10. #85
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenEyedFairy View Post
    Um, that's about being childish, I'd say
    Your opinion. Nothing more.
    GreenEyedFairy ain't alone with that statement.

  11. #86
    Elite Member Str8_uncut-jock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Everything I want, I have right here. Moving from here to another country would find me giving up what I have and what I know I can attain, hence I would be trading down to go anywhere else.



    Your opinion. Nothing more.
    Ya know, I must be missing something cause I am just not getting why you are so cantankerous in this thread. You certainly are passionnate, I give you that.

  12. #87
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    RIS I usually agree with you but you are coming off really angry. I've never heard you express a disdain for Canada before or even Grimm. No one is saying it is because of the blacks the prop went down, of course it required the vote of the bigoted homophobic fundie whites to do that. But as a percentage, more blacks and hispanics voted to overturn the right for gays to marry. So settle down. This is not about you.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  13. #88
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    seriously. i respect a lot of your opinions RIS but you're just being a brat in this thread.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  14. #89
    Elite Member NicoleWasHere's Avatar
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    RIS needs to go to her room.

    No, but seriously. There's no need for all of the anger. Grimm has an opinion, and wether he's from Canada or not, he has a right to state it. I'd say he has a pretty good idea of how things work. You just need to chill out. If you don't like what's being said in the thread, simply agree to disagree and step out.

    IMHO, the only thing to be mad about is that gay marriage was ever banned, again, at all.

  15. #90
    Gold Member ymeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinola View Post

    She also is saying more overtly that nonwhite, or at least black, gays and lesbians do not care about the marriage issue--I'll have to take her word on that.

    I don't believe this at all. I believe that black gays suffer much more from homophobia in their communities across the board. And many gay minorities will say that they are more concious of racism from whites than they are homophobia from their community, if only because of the fact that a significant number pass. I hate to assign ulterior motives to her but this sounds like a bit of reactionary anger. I've experienced enough classism in the gay community to know that the 'white gays' she references carry many of the prejudices that mainstream white america does.

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