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Thread: Blacks and Latinos back California gay marriage ban

  1. #61
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSDiva View Post
    Yes, he's doing great. When his mom lost custody of his two younger sisters he took them in, and raised them. I am so proud of him.

    I never thought California would vote to pass this bill, either. And for Arkansas to make it against the law for gays and lesbians to adopt or foster a child when there are so many kids who need a home, and someone to love them...and these are the same anti-abortion folks..there are no words...well nice ones.
    That was painful,but I believe Mississippi has a similar law and yet I personally know of a gay couple with 2 adopted children. That means there are ways around it-I don't know how/why they got this done but they did. I suspect having m-o-n-e-y helps. I hate to think of children allowed to go begging for a family ,with potential parents wiped out of consideration over sex.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  2. #62
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    I'm not american? I refuse to step foot in the US while it's still in fucked up Bush, ship you off to syria, torture you for no reason mode.
    I know you are Canadian. Since helping your fellow gays, regardless of where they are located, is so important, because being gay crosses so many lines, gays have to work together, and blah blah blah, you point out you are not American, implying this isn't your concern? The obvious question is: Why are you even involved in this discussion?

    Didn't someone here say why don't people butt the fuck out and mind their own business? American issue. American business. You can't say butt out when it provides an advantage to you, then shove your nose in where it doesn't belong later.

    Unless Canada merges with the US, this isn't your business, plain and simple. Your opinion doesn't matter until you have US citizenship.

    You brought it up. Not me.



  3. #63
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    No, inserting yourself in the case of supporting civil rights equality is a positive.

    Sticking your nose in other people's business and telling them how they should live, according to your narrow definition, and thus oppressing them, is a negative.

    2 entirely different things.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  4. #64
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Inserting yourself without invitation is most definitely minding someone else's business. The reason you do so does not change what you are doing. You see it as civil rights. Then again, what you see really doesn't matter, as this isn't your business, according to the logic behind your earlier statements being applied here.

    You are not American. You are most definitely butting in. America didn't come into Canada and oppose gay marriages. I'm not Canadian and really don't care what you legalize or don't legalize. I don't live there. Your being gay doesn't make your opinion matter one bit , even if you can identify with those who lost in the vote.

    Again, you say one thing, yet change direction when you do exactly what you blasted other people for doing.

    When you have American citizenship, then you won't be butting your nose into someone else's business. If you are going to give advice, be sure to use it yourself.



  5. #65
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Americans were bussed in to protest on parliament hill against gay marriage from a collection of ignorant baptist retard churches from all over the northeast. I spent the better part of a day on the other side of a protest line from them.

    America tried imposing its will on Canada in regards to trade with Cuba

    America butts into our shit all the time and tries to tell us how to run things.

    So really, till you live up here and see it, you don't know wtf yer talking about.

    Secondly, providing support FOR EQUALITY AND CIVIL RIGHTS, frankly, doesn't know boundaries. Trying to take rights AWAY from people, or prevent them from having equality, is butting in and telling them how they can live.

    Supporting equal rights and PROMOTING equality is not telling anyboldy else how they can live THEIR lives, but making sure people can live theirs the way they see fit.

    by your logic, I suppose Canada shouldn't have "butted in" to help all the stranded American flights on 9/11 that had nowhere to go considering the entire US was under lockdown. Canadians took families into their own homes.

    Canada is holding Afghanistan together, trying to HELP people there. But that's probably butting in too.

    There's a big fat disconnect between trying to HELP people, and trying to HARM them. 'Butting in' is inherently negative in connotation.

    Frankly, we wouldn't be having this conversation if your damn country wasn't as backwards and primitive as shit, but can't win them all. The US needs a helping dose of humanity, reality and a big fat chain leash to keep it under control.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  6. #66
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Canadians let non-citizens in to protest and didn't immediately escort them back to the border? Hmm, didn't think about that option, did you?

    I won't live up there. Why trade down? America is getting better every day.

    Get a backbone and learn one two letter word. No. Say it repeatedly and also stiffen the spine to back up the answer. That will stop the "bully".

    You don't live here yet you love to run off at the mouth about America. Let's just say I am following your lead about talking about a country I don't live in.

    Maybe the third time is the charm.

    Take. Your. Own. Advice.

    Ta ta.



  7. #67
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^^
    so you can only have an opinion about something going on in a country if you hold citizenship?
    that makes no sense.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  8. #68
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    I read this today and was struck by how angry she sounds

    (ETA: While I understand some of her concerns and issues, I still don't understand why it's such a complicated issue to vote yes on proposition 8, which was on the same ballot as the presidential vote. It's not like you had to physically go to the polls one day to vote for president, and then go back again to vote on proposition 8. It's right there on the same ballot! She really doesn't discuss the reasons why many in the Black community voted yes on prop. 8 except list reasons about the campaign by the anti prop 8 side failed. I think it makes her uncomfortable to confront the reality that many in the community, whether it's based on religion or whatnot, simply do not have favorable views of gays in general, and no amount of campaigning the "right way" would ever change their minds):

    No-on-8's white bias - Los Angeles Times

    No-on-8's white bias

    The right to marry does nothing to address the problems faced by both black gays and black straights.
    By Jasmyne A. Cannick

    November 8, 2008

    I am a perfect example of why the fight against Proposition 8, which amends the state Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, failed to win black support.

    I am black. I am a political activist who cares deeply about social justice issues. I am a lesbian. This year, I canvassed the streets of South Los Angeles and Compton, knocking on doors, talking politics to passers-by and working as I never had before to ensure a large voter turnout among African Americans. But even I wasn't inspired to encourage black people to vote against the proposition.

    Why? Because I don't see why the right to marry should be a priority for me or other black people. Gay marriage? Please. At a time when blacks are still more likely than whites to be pulled over for no reason, more likely to be unemployed than whites, more likely to live at or below the poverty line, I was too busy trying to get black people registered to vote, period; I wasn't about to focus my attention on what couldn't help but feel like a secondary issue.

    The first problem with Proposition 8 was the issue of marriage itself. The white gay community never successfully communicated to blacks why it should matter to us above everything else -- not just to me as a lesbian but to blacks generally. The way I see it, the white gay community is banging its head against the glass ceiling of a room called equality, believing that a breakthrough on marriage will bestow on it parity with heterosexuals. But the right to marry does nothing to address the problems faced by both black gays and black straights. Does someone who is homeless or suffering from HIV but has no healthcare, or newly out of prison and unemployed, really benefit from the right to marry someone of the same sex?

    Maybe white gays could afford to be singularly focused, raising millions of dollars to fight for the luxury of same-sex marriage. But blacks were walking the streets of the projects and reaching out to small businesses, gang members, convicted felons and the spectrum of an entire community to ensure that we all were able to vote.

    Second is the issue of civil rights. White gays often wonder aloud why blacks, of all people, won't support their civil rights. There is a real misunderstanding by the white gay community about the term. Proponents of gay marriage fling it around as if it is a one-size-fits-all catchphrase for issues of fairness.

    But the black civil rights movement was essentially born out of and driven by the black church; social justice and religion are inextricably intertwined in the black community. To many blacks, civil rights are grounded in Christianity -- not something separate and apart from religion but synonymous with it. To the extent that the issue of gay marriage seemed to be pitted against the church, it was going to be a losing battle in my community.

    Then there was the poorly conceived campaign strategy. Opponents of Proposition 8 relied on an outdated civil rights model, engaging the National Assn. for the Advancement of Colored People to help win black support on the issue of gay marriage. This happened despite the warnings of black lesbians and gays that it wouldn't work. While the NAACP definitely should have been included in the strategy, it shouldn't have been the only group. Putting nearly a quarter of a million dollars into an outdated civil rights group that has very little influence on the black vote -- at least when it comes to gay issues -- will never work.

    Likewise, holding the occasional town-hall meeting in Leimert Park -- the one part of the black community where they now feel safe thanks to gentrification -- to tell black people how to vote on something gay isn't effective outreach either.

    There's nothing a white gay person can tell me when it comes to how I as a black lesbian should talk to my community about this issue. If and when I choose to, I know how to say what needs to be said. Many black gays just haven't been convinced that this movement for marriage is about anything more than the white gays who fund it (and who, we often find, are just as racist and clueless when it comes to blacks as they claim blacks are homophobic).

    Some people seem to think that homophobia trumps racism, and that winning the battle for gay marriage will symbolically bring about equality for everyone. That may seem true to white gays, but as a black lesbian, let me tell you: There are still too many inequalities that exist as it relates to my race for that to ever be the case. Ever heard of "driving while black"? Ever looked at the difference between the dropout rates for blacks and for whites? Or test scores? Or wages? Or rates of incarceration?

    And in the end, black voters in California voted against gay marriage by more than 2 to 1.

    Maybe next time around -- because we all know this isn't over -- the gay community can demonstrate the capacity and willingness to change that America demonstrated when it went to the polls on Nov. 4. Black gays are depending on their white counterparts to finally "get it."

    Until then, don't expect to make any inroads any time soon in the black community on this issue -- including with this black lesbian.
    Last edited by celeb_2006; November 10th, 2008 at 12:42 AM.

  9. #69
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    I usually like and agree with Jasmyne Cannick's articles and blogs, but this one notsomuch!
    Baltimore O's ​Fan!

    I don''t know if she really fucked the board though. Maybe just put the tip in. -Mrs. Dark

  10. #70
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    You may feel entirely different when you fall deeply in love and want to be married. Civil unions don't cut, pure and simple. Maybe it's not the most important thing in your world, but can you only care about one issue at a time. Just because it didn't seem that important to you doesn't mean you needed to vote to overturn the right. that makes no sense. How hard is it to mark your ballot? Do you feel shame for being a lesbian and feel you don't deserve the same rights. As I said, it doesn't have to be only one issue at a time.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  11. #71
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    ....

    How about black gays stop being a bitch and do some fucking legwork instead of BLAMING WHITEY YET AGAIN for not being able to marry. Oh right, and being poor. Right, and not having healthcare, drugs, houses, cars, cats dogs, clothes, or literally anything. We can't worry about gay marriage when THOSE needs have yet to be taken care of. I'm sorry, is there some kind of official gay "things to do" list I'm not aware of, where we tick items off 1 by one?

    *sigh*

    I was unaware that we could only tackle 1 issue at a time!

    Gays cross all ethnicities and groups, you stupid woman. Just because some gays are WHITE doesn't mean THEYRE OUT TO KILL YOUR FUCKING BABY, or involved in some fucking SCAM where it's a pyramid scheme to bilk blacks out of money or something.

    Many black gays just haven't been convinced that this movement for marriage is about anything more than the white gays who fund it (and who, we often find, are just as racist and clueless when it comes to blacks as they claim blacks are homophobic).
    Have you ever BEEN to a Pride march? Jesus christ. You racist fuckface cow. "White gays" ? Seriously? Not only are white straight people out to get you, but now you have to worry about white gays! That's right, whitey can be divided up into subgroups for you to target endlessly with your misplaced rage.

    "Whitey isn't doing enough for me, so why should i help whitey gays get the right to marry"

    Uh, YOU would get the right to marry, dipshit. You. That's right, a crazy black lady. Cuz you're gay. Last i looked, sexual orientation doesn't pause for a minute to check out the color of the skin of the person it's in.

    Nevermind, you know what? Just go home. Go home, stop your bitching, and put a damn bag over your head and breath deeply. Then, when you're calm, maybe you can try WORKING WITH PEOPLE and not be such a braindead idiot.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  12. #72
    Gold Member ymeman's Avatar
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    "Does someone who is homeless or suffering from HIV but has no healthcare, or newly out of prison and unemployed, really benefit from the right to marry someone of the same sex?"

    I can think of some instances where they might. And I doubt that these people would begrudge others the right to marry because they are having a hard time of it. I have a friend, an attorney, who has no legal right to a child that her partner adopted, a private adoption she arranged from one of her own clients, because they could not marry. People don't think this stuff can happen to them until it does and they find out that they have zero recourse because they are not protected under the law. It sucks.

    I appreciate her efforts to explain the role of the church because I don't think that 'white America' really understands this too well. But I feel she's seeing 'either/or' where it really is 'both'.

  13. #73
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Inserting yourself without invitation is most definitely minding someone else's business. The reason you do so does not change what you are doing. You see it as civil rights. Then again, what you see really doesn't matter, as this isn't your business, according to the logic behind your earlier statements being applied here.

    You are not American. You are most definitely butting in. America didn't come into Canada and oppose gay marriages. I'm not Canadian and really don't care what you legalize or don't legalize. I don't live there. Your being gay doesn't make your opinion matter one bit , even if you can identify with those who lost in the vote.

    Again, you say one thing, yet change direction when you do exactly what you blasted other people for doing.

    When you have American citizenship, then you won't be butting your nose into someone else's business. If you are going to give advice, be sure to use it yourself.
    WTF?!? With this rationale, no one who is not a celebrity would be allowed to discuss celebrity gossip!

  14. #74
    Silver Member GreenEyedFairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post

    It's the same damn thing. How is it different? Rights are being with-held, or taken. Civil rights are civil rights. Either we're all equal, or we aren't.
    Exactly!



    We can (and should) care about what's going on in other countries! Just because we don't live there doesn't mean we can't have an opinion about it. What if some xyz country passed a law that said black people can't get married? Would black people in the US have right to be mad and upset about it? Would they have right to express their feelings? Try to change that? I think so.

    I really, really don't understand it. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it... but I, personally, don't really care if or why someone else gets married. As long as both of them want to get married, they should have a right to do so. Choice. Freedom.

  15. #75
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    I'm kind of shocked that someone would think coming to Canada is trading down. What's that all about?

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