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Thread: Blacks and Latinos back California gay marriage ban

  1. #46
    Elite Member nycgirl's Avatar
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    I'm really surprised California voted yes on Prop 8. If I lived out there I would have voted no in a heartbeat... everyone deserves basic human rights. Plus half of all straight marriages fail, so why is it considered such a "sacred" institution anyway?

    I would think minorities would be the biggest supporters of other minority groups too, but I guess sometimes that's not the case. Maybe it has to do with them being more religious on average? Or cultural factors? I don't know, but I'd really like to hear the thought process behind someone who has likely been discriminated against themselves voting to keep others from having equal rights.

  2. #47
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    You didn't see the commericals the "tes" group put on. It is the only reason it passed. They implied, incorrectly, that we would be teaching about Gay marriage in kindergarten. We don't teach anything about marriage until 6th grade.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  3. #48
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nana55 View Post
    The main thing all these groups, blacks, latinos, and right wing nut jobs have in common........religion. "The world's largest pyramid scheme". It cause more problems that ANYTHING else.
    Don't lump everyone together. Some blacks would be crucified by the church for their beliefs. That's like saying all whites are atheist. Stereotyping will not produce any positive results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    yeah, but gays havent been firehosed or attacked with dogs yet.

    Lynched, yes.
    Stop comparing this to the ethnic civil rights movement. It isn't the same. Make your own movement and stop piggybacking. It hasn't worked. All it will do is give more groups more ammunition to fight you with.

    If you want to have the dog attack and firehose pictures to publish, march in Jackson, Mobile, Montgomery, Birmingham, or even LA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    the bible says a lot of stupid shit that nobody obeys anymore.

    I love how THIS anti-gay shit (when in actuality, they were talking about prostitution of any stripe) is the one thing they fucking cling to, because it validates their own built in bigotry.
    You may not believe in the bible, but some do. Even the government grants freedom of religion.

    Some atheists don't even support gay marriage? Can you blame the bible for their beliefs?



  4. #49
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Stop comparing this to the ethnic civil rights movement. It isn't the same.
    Yes it is.

    Make your own movement and stop piggybacking.
    Awe. Don't wanna share civil rights issues? Just like minorities don't want to share marriage?

    Boo hoo. Gays cross all ethnicities. We are black, white asian, indian, african, every color in the rainbow. We are everybody. We have minorities that are gay, DOUBLING the minority-ness. We're more minority than minorities.

    It hasn't worked. All it will do is give more groups more ammunition to fight you with.
    What ammunition? "Sexual orientation civil rights arent the same as our skin color civil rights, despite the results being the same!". That's an unsupportable, asinine position.

    If you want to have the dog attack and firehose pictures to publish, march in Jackson, Mobile, Montgomery, Birmingham, or even LA.
    That's a great idea. It should come to that. There should be a countrywide Stonewall riot.


    You may not believe in the bible, but some do. Even the government grants freedom of religion.
    And apparently the freedom for religion to trounce equality.

    Some atheists don't even support gay marriage? Can you blame the bible for their beliefs?
    No, but i'd be curious as to what THEIR logic is, if any. If they don't have a magic sky fairy to rely on, what's left.. the lame "slippery slope" argument?

    All you have to do is look at all the countries that have gay marriage to see it hasn't happened anywhere else. Argument null.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  5. #50
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Yes it is.
    The voters obviously disagreed. Even minorities who support gay marriage have stated these are two separate civil right conflicts.

    Awe. Don't wanna share civil rights issues? Just like minorities don't want to share marriage?

    Boo hoo. Gays cross all ethnicities. We are black, white asian, indian, african, every color in the rainbow. We are everybody. We have minorities that are gay, DOUBLING the minority-ness. We're more minority than minorities.
    Sharing? Gays are a part of every group in this country, true. A black lesbian would be a triple minority. So? Different conflict. Different reasons.

    What ammunition? "Sexual orientation civil rights arent the same as our skin color civil rights, despite the results being the same!". That's an unsupportable, asinine position.
    If you can't see reactions like this are playing into the hands of the people who want to keep your rights locked away, that isn't my problem.

    Sexual orientation rights and ethnicity rights are not seen as the same in this country. Go back three days and see for yourself. Gays may see them as the same struggle, but the majority has already voiced its opinion. Ignore the obvious. Enjoy the bliss.

    That's a great idea. It should come to that. There should be a countrywide Stonewall riot.
    Get out your Nike's. Who's stopping you?

    And apparently the freedom for religion to trounce equality.
    Do you honestly believe one hundred percent of people who are against gay marriage have a solely religious basis for their position?

    No, but i'd be curious as to what THEIR logic is, if any. If they don't have a magic sky fairy to rely on, what's left.. the lame "slippery slope" argument?

    All you have to do is look at all the countries that have gay marriage to see it hasn't happened anywhere else. Argument null.
    The "magic sky fairy" has swayed more people than the rainbow flags have.

    There are only six countries which allow gay marriage. Only three of those have full equality for hetero and homo couples, placing no restrictions on gay unions. What about the other two hundred and fifty plus countries which don't allow it? Gay marriage has only be legal for about seven years. There are not enough instances of this being legal and not enough time to even use the argument same-sex marriage hasn't affected societies which allow it.



  6. #51
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    The voters obviously disagreed. Even minorities who support gay marriage have stated these are two separate civil right conflicts.
    Again, that's bwcause of thweir own built in bigotry and not wanting to be associated with the icky gays, when again for the billionth time, gays cross all ethnic boundaries.


    Sharing? Gays are a part of every group in this country, true. A black lesbian would be a triple minority. So? Different conflict. Different reasons.
    It's the same damn thing. How is it different? Rights are being with-held, or taken. Civil rights are civil rights. Either we're all equal, or we aren't.

    If you can't see reactions like this are playing into the hands of the people who want to keep your rights locked away, that isn't my problem.

    Sexual orientation rights and ethnicity rights are not seen as the same in this country. Go back three days and see for yourself. Gays may see them as the same struggle, but the majority has already voiced its opinion. Ignore the obvious. Enjoy the bliss.
    And again, they don't want to be lumped in with gays cuz we're icky. They'd rather sweep us under the carpet and pretend we didn't exist, even in their own ethnic makeup.

    it IS the same thing. They don't want to admit it is all.

    Get out your Nike's. Who's stopping you?
    I'm not american? I refuse to step foot in the US while it's still in fucked up Bush, ship you off to syria, torture you for no reason mode.

    Do you honestly believe one hundred percent of people who are against gay marriage have a solely religious basis for their position?
    No, but I haven't heard any other argument except the idiotic "slippery slope" thing, which is doubly idiotic when you think that even if the slope was slipper and slipped all the way down to hell, it STILL would not be their business what 2 (or more) consenting adults did with their own lives.

    The "magic sky fairy" has swayed more people than the rainbow flags have.
    More like brainwashed.

    There are only six countries which allow gay marriage. Only three of those have full equality for hetero and homo couples, placing no restrictions on gay unions. What about the other two hundred and fifty plus countries which don't allow it? Gay marriage has only be legal for about seven years. There are not enough instances of this being legal and not enough time to even use the argument same-sex marriage hasn't affected societies which allow it.
    Not enough time? Interesting. 7 years, and nothing has happened. The sky didn't fall. Society was not wrought asunder. People are going about their lives.

    More bullshit and societal destruction has occurred under how many centuries of hetero marriages than 10% of the population marrying each other and living happy productive lives.

    What could POSSIBLY happen in gay marriages, that has not already happened in straight ones? Think. It's the same thing. 2 people getting married, starting families, raising kids and functioning.

    All the same foibles and abuse and divorces and the rest that happen in straight marriages will happen in gay ones. If marriage as an institution has not been abolished because of it happening in heteroland, there's no reason for it to happen because it goes on in gayland.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #52
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    well these ppl are obviously retarded and better stick to the 1 marriage they enter into or else they're complete hypocrites. i dont give a fuck what color you are. if you voted yes to this; you're a dispicable retard.

    Gay rights backers file 3 lawsuits challenging Prop. 8 - Los Angeles Times

    and go fuck yourself!

  8. #53
    Elite Member Str8_uncut-jock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    The voters obviously disagreed. Even minorities who support gay marriage have stated these are two separate civil right conflicts.



    Sharing? Gays are a part of every group in this country, true. A black lesbian would be a triple minority. So? Different conflict. Different reasons.

    If you can't see reactions like this are playing into the hands of the people who want to keep your rights locked away, that isn't my problem.

    Sexual orientation rights and ethnicity rights are not seen as the same in this country. Go back three days and see for yourself. Gays may see them as the same struggle, but the majority has already voiced its opinion. Ignore the obvious. Enjoy the bliss.

    Get out your Nike's. Who's stopping you?

    Do you honestly believe one hundred percent of people who are against gay marriage have a solely religious basis for their position?

    The "magic sky fairy" has swayed more people than the rainbow flags have.

    There are only six countries which allow gay marriage. Only three of those have full equality for hetero and homo couples, placing no restrictions on gay unions. What about the other two hundred and fifty plus countries which don't allow it? Gay marriage has only be legal for about seven years. There are not enough instances of this being legal and not enough time to even use the argument same-sex marriage hasn't affected societies which allow it.
    Ok, fair enough...I have read your posts...I disagree...but I hear where you are coming from. Please share in step by step format how I can "earn" my civil rights. Nothing I have done so far has worked...I give you that...so please, lay it out...in clear, easy to understand english for a simple gay like me. Seriously. Tell me what I can do to convince a group of people who just don't care about me that they should. What's in it for them? Basic civil rights arguments do not work. Assimmiliation does not work. What would? Be specific.

  9. #54
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    i don't think the article is 'blaming' anyone. it's from the AP and i got linked to it through hufpo. i think it's just pointing out how ironic it is that on the same day the first black US president got elected, gays had their right to marry taken away in california, and what's more support for the bill was highest among blacks.
    at least that's how i understood it. but of course the numbers are there and everyone will interpret them in a different way.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  10. #55
    Elite Member Shinola's Avatar
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    Sidestepping a lot of the tit for tat ...

    The abolition movement and women's suffrage movement arose from similar schools of thought and had "members" in common. The civil rights movement and the women's movement had many common goals and common members. Today's feminists also tend to be pro-gay-rights. We are also pro-minority-rights.

    As long as there are oppressed groups of people in this nation, I feel that my own freedoms are tainted.

    I also see that there is a core of bigoted whites in my nation who hate my reproductive freedom, hate and fear powerful women, hate and fear gays, hate and fear people who are any race but white, hate and fear people who do not share their religion. I grew up among such people. Might as well know that they have been fairly united in their hatred and intolerance, and it only helps them to have various oppressed groups turn against each other.

    I also think that the real "slippery slope" in this situation is that once the zealots of this nation find that they can succeed in stripping rights away from a group of people and demote them to second-class status, then what is to stop them from doing the same to other groups? That means potentially any of us could be targeted in the future.
    Posted from my fucking iPhone

  11. #56
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    Religion is not the only reason for the hatred of Gays, but it is the overwhelming one. The other reason is what Grimm says "they're icky". I'm a very white, plump grandma looking type of person. If I can understand that people are born white, black, brown, red, gay, straight, etc. why can't everyone.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  12. #57
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    I am black and I grew up in the Church. If I didn't go to church with my mom, I went to church with another member of my family. I mentioned this because even though I grew up with these things in my head, I made my own choices on what to believe and what not to believe. I believe that the Bible was written by someone who wanted to push their own doctrine, I also know that when the Bible was translated from Hebrew to English that there wasn't a word for homosexuality in Hebrew. I also know that you cannot help who you fall in love with, and that anyone who believe homosexuality is a lifestyle, are just ignorant..
    However, it's still a problem with some secular Black families also. They preach that this is wrong, no matter what or who they believe in. I know of mothers who were told by their sons or daughters that they were gay, who were asked not to return until they stopped being that way or worse they allowed other people to brutally beat their child. I grew up with my best friend who's gay. His mom was a crackwhore, she was beneath the gutter(if you had some crack, and something she could lick or suck to get it, she did it)! He asked me to be with him when he came out to his mom. When he told her, she called him every name, but a child of God. His brothers(one older, the other younger) tried to beat him up, but I wouldn't let them. I brought him home with me, and he lived between my grandmother's and my mom's house until he graduated.


    I don''t know if she really fucked the board though. Maybe just put the tip in. -Mrs. Dark

  13. #58
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSDiva View Post
    I grew up with my best friend who's gay. His mom was a crackwhore, she was beneath the gutter(if you had some crack, and something she could lick or suck to get it, she did it)! He asked me to be with him when he came out to his mom. When he told her, she called him every name, but a child of God. His brothers(one older, the other younger) tried to beat him up, but I wouldn't let them. I brought him home with me, and he lived between my grandmother's and my mom's house until he graduated.
    This is tragic. What a blessing he had you for a friend. Is he doing alright now? All cultures have their haters-I think mostly out of fear. Or simple ignorance,yet they refuse to learn more or attempt to understand what they are afraid of,just remain bitter. Their loss.
    I did look for California to set a tone here. They did-just not the way I expected.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str8_uncut-jock View Post
    I think the Human Rights campaign on a national level should start a public relations campaign that explicitely draws a visual comparison between gay rights and rights for ethnic minorities in this country. Use footage of black people being sprayed with fire hoses....being attacked by dogs...being forced to get their food from the back door and to drink from seperate water fountains. Show the terrible, terrible abuse that millions of Americans suffered and when you see the crying faces of black children and grwon men and women of color...suddenly, just at that moment...cut quickly to what is happening right now...today...to our gay citizens. Put it in their faces...not just during an election, but every day to remind them how we are treating our own people.
    That wouldn't work because while both are civil rights struggles against discrimination they're different fights. And that's not to say that one group is suffering more than the other. It's just different struggles for different rights. Even among racial minorities there were different struggles because blacks, latinos, asians, etc had different experiences so one can't be compared to the other. Just like women had to battle for a different set of rights, which were different from minorities.

    The best approach is to reach out to minority groups and show that while they may be different struggles no one should be denied their civil rights. And remind minority groups that they wouldn't want somebody denying them their civil rights, and to deny somebody else their civil rights, whether it goes against your religious beliefs or not, is wrong. And remind minorities that in the past religion was used as a justification to deny them their civil rights.

  15. #60
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    This is tragic. What a blessing he had you for a friend. Is he doing alright now? All cultures have their haters-I think mostly out of fear. Or simple ignorance,yet they refuse to learn more or attempt to understand what they are afraid of,just remain bitter. Their loss.
    I did look for California to set a tone here. They did-just not the way I expected.
    Yes, he's doing great. When his mom lost custody of his two younger sisters he took them in, and raised them. I am so proud of him.

    I never thought California would vote to pass this bill, either. And for Arkansas to make it against the law for gays and lesbians to adopt or foster a child when there are so many kids who need a home, and someone to love them...and these are the same anti-abortion folks..there are no words...well nice ones.


    I don''t know if she really fucked the board though. Maybe just put the tip in. -Mrs. Dark

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