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Thread: Blacks and Latinos back California gay marriage ban

  1. #136
    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    I'm not bitching at the gays, I am bitching to them. I am trying to get it through their heads that acting like a raging idiot, throwing child like temper tantrums, while stomping their feet, isn't doing the cause any good. Actually, I think it really hurts the cause and discredits them. No one wants to help someone that acts like that.

  2. #137
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Methinks the gays are tired of being told how to act
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    I think we tried dignity.. along with asimilation.. playing nice.. not ruffling feathers... even having tv shows with campy, neutered gays and crap all has happened.

    People have a right to be pissed, considering the outcome

    People were pissed at Bush an left signs all over, but nobody bitched about that because what HE did affected THEM too.

    It's just more "stop acting out, you're ruffling feathers!" talk.

    Actually this is my observation. You took tolerance as a sign of respect. You thought people would support you. For a long time in my life I had the position of people saying one thing behind someone's back and another to their face. Especially among a group. Everyone expresses outrage at Mr. X's behavior and I'd report the bastard to the higher ups only to have the complainers scatter like fleas when the head honchos came down. Leaving me holding the bag as the lone standerupper. I learned a long time ago to stand up for what I want on my own two feet and to make my case alone, if it is right, it is right. Numbers don't win victories. Precision aim does.

    So its always been pretty clear to me when people are talking the talk rather than walking the walk. I hope that you can get what I mean about "respect" and "tolerance" being two different things. Like Ellen. Everyone loves Ellen. Sure they do. She was probably flabbergasted at this ruling. And she'd probably be stunned at some of the people she thought were her friends that secretly voted against her right to get married.

    I guess what has me frustrated is this sense in the gay community that if the rest of the world will accept and tolerate you then it will lead to you getting rights.

    It
    Won't

    Neither will winning people over by being nice respectable people. Only it does hurt your cause when you act like deranged immoral people moreso than a straight person because all are stereotyped by the actions of the extremists.

    I'm hoping that people will give up the popularity contest and seek legal recourse.

  4. #139
    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Methinks the gays are tired of being told how to act
    That's fine, too. Just don't bitch when people don't want to support the cause.
    You can't bash and be disrespectful to people and then expect them to support you.

  5. #140
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipstick View Post
    Actually this is my observation. You took tolerance as a sign of respect. You thought people would support you. For a long time in my life I had the position of people saying one thing behind someone's back and another to their face. Especially among a group. Everyone expresses outrage at Mr. X's behavior and I'd report the bastard to the higher ups only to have the complainers scatter like fleas when the head honchos came down. Leaving me holding the bag as the lone standerupper. I learned a long time ago to stand up for what I want on my own two feet and to make my case alone, if it is right, it is right. Numbers don't win victories. Precision aim does.

    So its always been pretty clear to me when people are talking the talk rather than walking the walk. I hope that you can get what I mean about "respect" and "tolerance" being two different things. Like Ellen. Everyone loves Ellen. Sure they do. She was probably flabbergasted at this ruling. And she'd probably be stunned at some of the people she thought were her friends that secretly voted against her right to get married.

    I guess what has me frustrated is this sense in the gay community that if the rest of the world will accept and tolerate you then it will lead to you getting rights.

    It
    Won't

    Neither will winning people over by being nice respectable people. Only it does hurt your cause when you act like deranged immoral people moreso than a straight person because all are stereotyped by the actions of the extremists.

    I'm hoping that people will give up the popularity contest and seek legal recourse.

    define "deranged and immoral moreso than a straight person"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie View Post
    That's fine, too. Just don't bitch when people don't want to support the cause.
    You can't bash and be disrespectful to people and then expect them to support you.
    Given that the sign is bashing mormons, the very people that funded the oppression, obviously the intent is not to win them over.

    They aren't going to be won over. They will have to be crushed or strangled.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  6. #141
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    I mean that a straight person could do the same thing and it would have far less scruitiny than a gay person doing it.

    Just the same way during the civil rights movement if a white man got angry and loud because of an injustice it would be more forgivable than a black man.

    You seem to be confused between what people say they feel and the secret truth.

    We live in a PC world. Everyone "says" the right things but underneathe there's a discomfort. Let me make clear that it is their issue. Nothing at all to do with you. But if you are forced to deal with these people you can never make the mistake of thinking that because someone is nice to your face and says proper things that this is how they really feel inside.

    I remember for example my dear sweet sister getting upset about my marriage. She was all supportive to my face. And never said much beyond "don't you like white guys?"

    But she did some seirous fucking damage when I let her take my kids out to TGIF's one time for a fun lunch when she raked them over the coals about their lifestyle and probed them for details about how we lived.

    It was an eye opener to me.

  7. #142
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    No, I'm not confused.. there's a lot of PC fairweather "support" going around, but they still yank the bigot lever in the booths when the curtain is closed.

    Stealthbigots.

    As the Japanese say, a person has 3 hearts. One heart to show the world, one heart for their family and close friends, and a secret heart known only to them of their deepest desires.

    Frankly, if i had my way I'd be chopping a few of those hearts out with a spoon.

    Why a spoon?

    Cuz it'd hurt more!
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  8. #143
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    Right so go to court. Have you filed a law suit yet?

    I think if every single gay person filed a law suit that the courts would be forced to take notice. Even if they denied the cases. Right now its not their problem. Make it their problem.

  9. #144
    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    Stealthbigots.

  10. #145
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Prop 8 Myths

    Writes Dan Walters of the Sacramento Bee:
    Last week, however, 10 percent of voters were African American while 18 percent were Latino, and applying exit poll data to that extra turnout reveals that the pro-Obama surge among those two groups gave Proposition 8 an extra 500,000-plus votes, slightly more than the measure's margin of victory.

    To put it another way, had Obama not been so popular and had voter turnout been more traditional meaning the proportion of white voters had been higher chances are fairly strong that Proposition 8 would have failed.
    Certainly, the No on 8 folks might have done a better job of outreach to California's black and Latino communities. But the notion that Prop 8 passed because of the Obama turnout surge is silly. Exit polls suggest that first-time voters -- the vast majority of whom were driven to turn out by Obama (he won 83 percent [!] of their votes) -- voted against Prop 8 by a 62-38 margin. More experienced voters voted for the measure 56-44, however, providing for its passage.

    Now, it's true that if new voters had voted against Prop 8 at the same rates that they voted for Obama, the measure probably would have failed. But that does not mean that the new voters were harmful on balance -- they were helpful on balance. If California's electorate had been the same as it was in 2004, Prop 8 would have passed by a wider margin.

    Furthermore, it would be premature to say that new Latino and black voters were responsible for Prop 8's passage. Latinos aged 18-29 (not strictly the same as 'new' voters, but the closest available proxy) voted against Prop 8 by a 59-41 margin. These figures are not available for young black voters, but it would surprise me if their votes weren't fairly close to the 50-50 mark.

    At the end of the day, Prop 8's passage was more a generational matter than a racial one. If nobody over the age of 65 had voted, Prop 8 would have failed by a point or two. It appears that the generational splits may be larger within minority communities than among whites, although the data on this is sketchy.

    The good news for supporters of marriage equity is that -- and there's no polite way to put this -- the older voters aren't going to be around for all that much longer, and they'll gradually be cycled out and replaced by younger voters who grew up in a more tolerant era. Everyone knew going in that Prop 8 was going to be a photo finish -- California might be just progressive enough and 2008 might be just soon enough for the voters to affirm marriage equity. Or, it might fall just short, which is what happened. But two or four or six or eight years from now, it will get across the finish line.

    -- Nate Silver at 2:47 PM

    FiveThirtyEight.com: Electoral Projections Done Right: Prop 8 Myths

  11. #146
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    hah. recycled old people
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  12. #147
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