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Thread: Barack Obama's spiritual advisor: Hillary Clinton ain't never been called a N*gger!

  1. #61
    Elite Member southernbelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Lets propose this question:

    If Hillary Clinton had been married in a White Church, and baptized Chelsea there, attended services there for 20 years, and it was found out that the pastor was giving these type sermons, what do you think the reaction would be?

    Would it be called a "non-issue", as it's being called by the Obama campaign?

    We need to use the same yardstick on all candidates.
    That is an excellent point.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Lets propose this question:

    If Hillary Clinton had been married in a White Church, and baptized Chelsea there, attended services there for 20 years, and it was found out that the pastor was giving these type sermons, what do you think the reaction would be?

    Would it be called a "non-issue", as it's being called by the Obama campaign?

    We need to use the same yardstick on all candidates.
    I agree that we do need to use the same yardstick to measure candidates by. However, since Hillary, and many of her supporters, think that being First Lady matches up to McCain's experience and trumps Obama's time in the Illinois state senate then we should apply that same rule to what actually constitutes political experience and what doesn't.

    As for your question about Hillary and the church, if she was attending a church where the pastor was giving these kind of sermons I would expect people to question her about it just like people are questioning Obama about it.

    Afterall, if you're running for president and your pastor is basically saying 'fuck America' then that's going to raise an eyebrow. But I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that she must hate America because some pastor that she's known for 20 years hates America like some people are jumping to that conclusion about Obama. Because if you hate America why would you run for president?

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    His pastors remarks weren't just anti-American. They were viewed as racist by many people as well. As a white person watching the video of Obama's pastor's comments, I was extremly put off by the fact that Obama has such a close association with a man who preaches the black power/"white people are the devils who are responsable for all black people's problems" mantra. It may resonate with that Pastor's congregation (judging by the applause), but I don't think it's something that will resonate with mainstream America. Can you imagine if Hillary was a member of a "church" (and I use that word loosely, because that place obviously preaches hate, and thus should not be thought of as a church) where the Pastor was giving sermons about how white people can't send their children to public schools anymore, and have to worry about crime on the streets because of black people, etc? She'd have to drop out of the race. Obama is getting a pass on this if you ask me, as most instances of black racism seem to get in this country.

    I personally do not want a President who is close enough to this Pastor to let him officiate his marriage ceremony and baptize his children. That pastor's views were extremely reovlting, and Obama's continued association with that Pastor does not reflect well on him at all.

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    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    If Hillary, or anyone even remotely connected with her campaign, had the slightest whiff of this kind of racism about them, she'd be crucified. Guaranteed. In fact, she's been accused of playing the race card from day one.

    I also agree that I'd like to see the candidates' focus on the ISSUES, foreign and domestic. That should demand their full attention.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purple rain View Post
    His pastors remarks weren't just anti-American. They were viewed as racist by many people as well. As a white person watching the video of Obama's pastor's comments, I was extremly put off by the fact that Obama has such a close association with a man who preaches the black power/"white people are the devils who are responsable for all black people's problems" mantra. It may resonate with that Pastor's congregation (judging by the applause), but I don't think it's something that will resonate with mainstream America. Can you imagine if Hillary was a member of a "church" (and I use that word loosely, because that place obviously preaches hate, and thus should not be thought of as a church) where the Pastor was giving sermons about how white people can't send their children to public schools anymore, and have to worry about crime on the streets because of black people, etc? She'd have to drop out of the race. Obama is getting a pass on this if you ask me, as most instances of black racism seem to get in this country.

    I personally do not want a President who is close enough to this Pastor to let him officiate his marriage ceremony and baptize his children. That pastor's views were extremely reovlting, and Obama's continued association with that Pastor does not reflect well on him at all.
    Considering that there are white people who attend and/or are affiliated with the same church, it can't be a church that preaches hating white people. Otherwise, white people wouldn't be involved with it. Plus, Obama is half-white and is close to the white side of his family, so, if he shared those beliefs that 'white people are the devils' wouldn't that mean he was hating part of himself and part of his family?

    But this goes back to people in the Clinton campaign who have tried to make race an issue in this campaign, and have said things that could be considered racist. Since these people are closely associated with Hillary does that mean that she's a racist or supports racist beliefs?

    But I do blame Obama for not being smart enough to distance himself from his pastor when he decided to run for president. Common sense should have told him that if he was going to be running for president, that his pastor would be a detriment to him considering his views. That's why you have to cut the dead weight loose in your life if they're only going to weight you down, no matter how close you are to them.

  6. #66
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Considering that there are white people who attend and/or are affiliated with the same church, it can't be a church that preaches hating white people. Otherwise, white people wouldn't be involved with it. Plus, Obama is half-white and is close to the white side of his family, so, if he shared those beliefs that 'white people are the devils' wouldn't that mean he was hating part of himself and part of his family?

    But this goes back to people in the Clinton campaign who have tried to make race an issue in this campaign, and have said things that could be considered racist. Since these people are closely associated with Hillary does that mean that she's a racist or supports racist beliefs?

    But I do blame Obama for not being smart enough to distance himself from his pastor when he decided to run for president. Common sense should have told him that if he was going to be running for president, that his pastor would be a detriment to him considering his views. That's why you have to cut the dead weight loose in your life if they're only going to weight you down, no matter how close you are to them.
    He went from not being black enough to being a black militant. The fact that he was raised by his maternal grand parents and his mom for majority of his life should erase the whole "he is a racist by association crap', but it won't, like the fact that his Bible preaching ex Pastor won't stop the 'Radical Muslim' crap either. When he first announced he was running he did distance himself from the Revered, and hoped by his looming retirement it would be enough, but you are right it wasn't enough!
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    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    [YOUTUBE]sBHti3CF_ek[/YOUTUBE]

    Back in September 1988, I was a young man searching for a spiritual direction. The Christianity of my youth did not suffice for the questions that I had.
    The milquetoast theological explanations of the church I was forced to attend at gunpoint by my parents caused me to reject Christianity as a young adult, and more importantly, reject the teachings of Jesus. At the time, I was seriously considering orthodox Islam.


    So it was rather serendipitous, as I later reflected, that I received a last minute phone call from a friend to attend a service at the Allen Temple Baptist Church in Oakland. My immediate inclination was to decline, but my attraction to the woman who asked me to attend overruled my gut reactions.
    Little did I know that I would hear a sermon that not only changed my view of the teachings of Jesus, but also put me on a path that would lead to attending seminary and ultimately being the only pastor/syndicated columnist in the country.
    The title of the sermon, "What Makes you so Strong?" was preached by Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright. The power, the intellect, and the spirituality of the message were like nothing I'd ever heard. I left that night with more questions than I was given answers, but it unleashed a curiosity that remains to this day.
    With love at the foundation, Rev. Wright presented Jesus as a radical, revolutionary, and deeply subversive individual who sided with those on the underside of life, and was committed to changing the status quo.
    Over the years, I've heard Dr. Wright preach numerous times; the majority has been of the same intellectual and spiritual nature of that initial sermon. But there were times I believed he crossed an ethical line. I've heard him say things that, in my opinion, trump the controversial sound bites that have been recently aired.
    But Trinity United Church of Christ, under the leadership Rev. Wright, is not some racist/xenophobic cult that the isolated sound bites might suggest. It is an oasis in the wilderness of poverty, black on black crime, and under performing public schools that plague Chicago like it does practically every other urban city.
    By admitting Rev. Wright's influence on my spiritual path must I now must now denounce him or risk banishment to the island of irrelevance? Granted, I'm not running for president, but few of us are the sum total of a sound bite.
    As inflammatory as those statements appear, they are sound bites. Sen. Obama's rejection of the statements, which he was right to do, does not mean that Rev. Wright doesn't have a truth.
    If we really want to end racism there must be a courage to hear and understand a truth that may differ from our own.
    Byron Williams is an Oakland pastor and syndicated columnist. He is the author of "Strip Mall Patriotism: Moral Reflections of the Iraq War." E-mail him at byron@byronspeaks.com Or go to his blog, byronspeaks.blogspot.com
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    I guess it's true what they've been saying about the Democrats eating their own. We are all in this together and we all have a common goal - to kick the Republicans out of office. Attacking a fellow Dem is not going to win us the White House in November. Everyone might as well get used to saying "President McCain" now because if this type of infighting and animosity keeps up, he's going to win.

  9. #69
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    ^^True. That's why this battle between Hillary and Obama is going to have to end soon, and a nominee has to be picked. Otherwise, the party is going to be split, because of the bad blood and whoever gets the nomination, the other person's supporters won't back them.

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    ^Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of, too. I've spent the last few weeks mad as hell at Hillary for the tone and direction her campaign has taken. But no matter what I dislike about her, she's still a better choice then "100 Years of War" McCain. The only way to prevent that from happening is for us all to put away our differences and come together in a spirit of party unity.

  11. #71
    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernbelle View Post
    That makes me feel like Obama doesn't have a problem with what Wright believes or says; He just has a problem with other people finding out that the man he credits with being his spiritual mentor is actually a fervent racist whose idea of a powerful sermon is to scream, "God damn America!" and let loose with a stream of expletives and disparaging remarks about other individuals and races. I find that very offensive and very troubling.
    The media is reporting that quote out of context. He wasn't just saying 'God damn America'; he was saying God damn America if we continue to behave in a manner out of line with the Bible. The full quote by Obama's minister is as follows:

    "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
    ABC News: Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11

    I really love what Andrew Sullivan had to say on this situation:

    What Obama Saw in Wright's Church

    14 Mar 2008 03:23 pm

    A reader says that we cannot know what is in Obama's heart, and to a certain extent, that's true. My reader believes therefore that Wright's racist anger is what Obama truly believes - and is now concealing. All I can say is that very, very few public figures have been so candid about why and how they found the message of Jesus so compelling, or have explained their faith journey so pellucidly (certainly not our spiritually inarticulate current president). The appeal of that church to Obama was not anger or racism or the ugliness in some of Jeremiah Wright's tub-thumping. What Obama discovered - as a previous atheist - was the spiritual power of Christian hope.
    Here's the relevant section:
    "And in that single note - hope! - I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of the ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion's den, Ezekiel's field of dry bones. Those stories - of survival, and freedom, and hope - became our story, my story; the blood that had been spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until the black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world.
    Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim memories that we didn't need to feel shamed about, memories more accessible than those of ancient Egypt, memories that all people might study and cherish - and with which we could start to rebuild. And if part of me continued to feel that this Sunday communion sometimes simplified our condition, that it could sometimes disguise or suppress the very real conflicts among us and would fulfill its promise only through action, I also felt for the first time how that spirit carried within it, nascent, incomplete, the possibility of moving beyond our narrow dreams."
    My italics. I don't know how you can read Obama's writing or listen to any of his speeches and believe that Wright's ugliest messages are what Obama believes or has ever believed. He wrote these words long before he was running for president. They struck me powerfully as I read them; because they helped me understand how hard hope can be for the very poor or those from broken families or gripped with addiction. I don't see how the impulse to listen to, bond with, and help those people is an ugly impulse, however ugly the anger that can come from those places sometimes is.
    The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

    I'm interested and excited to see what Sen. Obama will be saying in his major speech on race tomorrow morning.
    Ben Smith's Blog - Politico.com
    Last edited by Cali; March 17th, 2008 at 04:22 PM.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    ^^Interesting read, Cali. Nice to see the pastor's comments in their FULL context. And Sullivan makes a good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by purewine View Post
    ^Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of, too. I've spent the last few weeks mad as hell at Hillary for the tone and direction her campaign has taken. But no matter what I dislike about her, she's still a better choice then "100 Years of War" McCain. The only way to prevent that from happening is for us all to put away our differences and come together in a spirit of party unity.
    I agree, I'd rather have Hillary than McCain any day. But I'm also pissed at the tone Hillary's campaign has taken. The fact that she decided to go after Obama, with Republican-style tactics, not realizing that it would only backfire on her, which it has for the most part. The one good thing about her tactics is that it starts making Obama battle-tested for the Republicans if he wins the nomination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    ^^True. That's why this battle between Hillary and Obama is going to have to end soon, and a nominee has to be picked. Otherwise, the party is going to be split, because of the bad blood and whoever gets the nomination, the other person's supporters won't back them.
    Sadly, I feel we're already there. I fully expect to see the number of registered democrats dropping significantly after the general. Many voters are so disenfranchised with the way the DNC and media is handling all of this that they're talking of going indy. And why shouldn't they? Even my eight year-old daughter, who was so excited at first to see history in the making, is disgusted that we're probably gonna have "another red guy" in the White House because the democrats can't get it together. Freaking wasted opportunity.
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."-Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSDiva View Post
    ^^ You know that all would fly, if there weren't gay people who attend churches, that preach against who they were born to love. They don't share the churches doctrine on that, but they still attend! In some folks eyes they might be stupid, but in theirs the other sermons might outweigh the bad!!


    It is so funny that mentioned Oprah, and other black celebrities not all black women are Oprah, nor do all black people have the talent to become actors, actresses, musicians, ball players etc...

    Also, the last time I checked the Post Office gave test to everyone who sought employment. After the test, they hire according to your SCORE, with vets, and widows of vets going to the top of the list!! This is the procedure of the United States Postal Office.
    Check again my dear, I have been going through the process for a year or so. A "head up" that I know VERY well said that black women are considered a miniority and are first on the list to get hired.
    Thanks for insight though.

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    Elite Member yanna's Avatar
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    Yes, she's never been called nigger as I'm pretty sure no one has called Obama a bitch. WTF is up with this rhetoric?

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