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Thread: Barack Obama wins South Carolina Primary by substantial margin

  1. #16
    Elite Member nycgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    But what a lot of Hillary supporters don't get is that the Republicans WANT Hillary to win the Democratic nomination. Because they know that a lot of people truly hate her. Not to mention, none of the Republicans want to run against Barack.

    And, yeah, people keep bringing up Obama's inexperience. But here's the thing, Hillary has far more political experience than Obama, however she still voted for the Iraq war and Obama didn't. Despite all of Hillary's experience she couldn't tell that Bush was feeding her a line of b.s., but Obama, the inexperienced one, knew from the getgo and didn't vote for the war. So, sometimes experience isn't all it's cracked up to be if you can't use common sense.

    Nothing personal to Hillary supporters, either.
    Really? Because I think they would like Obama getting the nomination just as much. I can see them, Fox News especially (which has been, ironically, seemingly biased towards Obama as opposed to Hillary), really tearing into him and turning on him after he got the nomination. Hillary on the other hand, has been torn down since the start, nothing new. There are some people out there who despise Clintons, yes, but ultimately she's been leading in the polls on a national level. She has many supporters, and counting her out already as a contender for the presidency seems a bit premature to me. To be fair, I'm not counting Obama out yet either by a long shot. I will support him if he's the nomination. I just have a feeling she'll win super tuesday. But who knows, we'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    I agree with you nycgirly. Hillary may lack charm and charisma, but her husband does plus he's had the Top Job before and so can provide a huge amount of political experience and they are both masters at playing the game. In these troubled times I would prefer to have Billary in charge than someone with as little experience as Obama. His time will come for sure, but he needs a lot more political miles under his belt.
    Couldn't agree more I think someone's political experience is extremely important, Hillary already knows what she's getting into and has Bill right behind her. And this is slightly off topic but I always loved Bill and never understood why part of his personal life became the highlight of his presidency- granted he shouldn't have lied about it, but he was vilified for something that, IMO, was irrelevant to the state of the country.
    Last edited by nycgirl; January 27th, 2008 at 12:28 AM.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycgirly101 View Post
    Really? Because I think they would like Obama getting the nomination just as much. I can see them, Fox News especially (which has been, ironically, seemingly biased towards Obama as opposed to Hillary), really tearing into him and turning on him after he got the nomination. Hillary on the other hand, has been torn down since the start, nothing new. There are some people out there who despise Clintons, yes, but ultimately she's been leading in the polls on a national level. She has many supporters, and counting her out already as a contender for the presidency seems a bit premature to me. To be fair, I'm not counting Obama out yet either by a long shot. I will support him if he's the nomination. I just have a feeling she'll win super tuesday. But who knows, we'll see.
    Here's why I think the Republicans want Hillary over Obama. Because in addition to the fact that they know there's a long-standing hatred for Hillary, they also can play on the fact that she doesn't represent real change since for the last 20 years all of our presidents have been named Bush or Clinton. And, of course, they'll play up the gender factor.

    In Obama's case, the only card they can really play is the race card, and that would just blow up in their faces. True, they can bring up his inexperience, but considering that he didn't vote for the war, which over 70% of the country is now against, and the Republicans are still war-happy that's not going to be a good thing for them.

    But I think Hillary may end up winning the nomination, too. But whether Hillary or Obama wins, I'll still vote for either one of them.

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    A*O
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    American Constitution 101: Can a former President be appointed to a senior position in a subsequent administration, eg, Secretary of State?
    Why do people say "Grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really wanna get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding! -Betty White

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    American Constitution 101: Can a former President be appointed to a senior position in a subsequent administration, eg, Secretary of State?
    I'm not an expert on the Constitution, but I know former presidents who have served for more than six years can't be President or Vice-President. But I don't see why they can't be appointed to a Cabinet position.

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    Maybe one of our politics nerds can tell us? I think Bill would totally rock as Secretary of State.
    Why do people say "Grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really wanna get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding! -Betty White

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    Elite Member nycgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Here's why I think the Republicans want Hillary over Obama. Because in addition to the fact that they know there's a long-standing hatred for Hillary, they also can play on the fact that she doesn't represent real change since for the last 20 years all of our presidents have been named Bush or Clinton. And, of course, they'll play up the gender factor.

    In Obama's case, the only card they can really play is the race card, and that would just blow up in their faces. True, they can bring up his inexperience, but considering that he didn't vote for the war, which over 70% of the country is now against, and the Republicans are still war-happy that's not going to be a good thing for them.

    But I think Hillary may end up winning the nomination, too. But whether Hillary or Obama wins, I'll still vote for either one of them.
    Yep, me too Either one of them winning would be better than Bush. And whoever wins the Bush admin is almost over! Lets just hope one of his drunk daughters doesn't decide to go into politics.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    Maybe one of our politics nerds can tell us? I think Bill would totally rock as Secretary of State.
    I do, too. Actually, one of the things I agree with Hillary on is that she said that if she got elected she would appoint Bill as an ambassador to try and clean up America's image overseas.

    But I don't think Hillary would make Bill a part of her cabinet, because she would catch hell from people saying that she's only doing it because he's her husband.

    Quote Originally Posted by nycgirly101 View Post
    Yep, me too Either one of them winning would be better than Bush. And whoever wins the Bush admin is almost over! Lets just hope one of his drunk daughters doesn't decide to go into politics.
    I'm counting down the days until the Bush era is OFFICIALLY over, too. Can't be soon enough. And I don't want anybody with the last name Bush near the White House ever again.

  8. #23
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    ^^Doubtful. Because there are Republicans, Democrats and Independents who literally despise Hillary. And the fact that she's going out of her way to keep making Obama's race an issue isn't going to win her any friends, either.
    This is what I found highly insulting too. Bill crossed serious lines with his consistent comments about Obama's race. I don't see Obama constantly playing the woman card. I lost a lot of respect for the two of them over that whole thing.

    And I absolutely agree that Republicans are praying that Hillary gets the nomination right now instead of Obama. They were even discussing this last night on CNN. Obama has been pulling numerous Independents and even some hardcore Republicans (like I shared before - my mom!) to his side. Thats remarkable. Hillary will never have any Republicans cross for her, and will have a minimum amount of Independents vote for her, especially if McCain is the Republican candidate. And she'll pull in numerous anti-Hillary votes as well. Obama will run away with the Presidency if he wins the democratic nomination, so the Republicans are praying for Hillary so they stand a good chance of getting into the White House.

    I am just pissed that Bill and Hillary are running as a team. I personally find that really inappropriate, and I find it ironic that so many women are backing a woman that doesn't even have the moxie to run her own campaign without her husband fighting her battles for her. Has that ever happened with a male candidate before? Why does she feel the need to let her husband speak for her? Its like a backwards sexism thing, which is insulting to me as well. Like when Bill was chastising Obama in numerous speeches around the US, and Obama brought it up at the debate, she had the nerve to say "he's not here, I am." Then STOP having your husband speak for you on the campaign trail. Its a way of not having to answer to anything, and I am sick of it.
    Last edited by january; January 27th, 2008 at 02:30 AM.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    This is what I found highly insulting too. Bill crossed serious lines with his consistent comments about Obama's race. I don't see Obama constantly playing the woman card. I lost a lot of respect for the two of them over that whole thing.

    And I absolutely agree that Republicans are praying that Hillary gets the nomination right now instead of Obama. They were even discussing this last night on CNN. Obama has been pulling numerous Independents and even some hardcore Republicans (like I shared before - my mom!) to his side. Thats remarkable. Hillary will never have any Republicans cross for her, and will have a minimum amount of Independents vote for her, especially if McCain is the Republican candidate. And she'll pull in numerous anti-Hillary votes as well. Obama will run away with the Presidency if he wins the democratic nomination, so the Republicans are praying for Hillary so they stand a good chance of getting into the White House.

    I am just pissed that Bill and Hillary are running as a team. I personally find that really inappropriate, and I find it ironic that so many women are backing a woman that doesn't even have the moxie to run her own campaign without her husband fighting her battles for her. Has that ever happened with a male candidate before? Why does she feel the need to let her husband speak for her? Its like a backwards sexism thing, which is insulting to me as well. Like when Bill was chastising Obama in numerous speeches around the US, and Obama brought it up at the debate, she had the nerve to say "he's not here, I am." Then STOP having your husband speak for you on the campaign trail. Its a way of not having to answer to anything, and I am sick of it.
    Thank you.

    And the Bill factor goes back to what I've been saying from the start, Hillary would not be where she is in this campaign if it wasn't for Bill Clinton. And if she's suppose to be independent of Bill, then why does she have her husband running around attacking Obama? Bill's not running for president, Hillary is. It's one thing to have your spouse on the campaign trail supporting you, it's another thing to have them fighting your political battles.

  10. #25
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Thank you.

    And the Bill factor goes back to what I've been saying from the start, Hillary would not be where she is in this campaign if it wasn't for Bill Clinton. And if she's suppose to be independent of Bill, then why does she have her husband running around attacking Obama? Bill's not running for president, Hillary is. It's one thing to have your spouse on the campaign trail supporting you, it's another thing to have them fighting your political battles.
    I agree completely. Great posts on this thread. And the fact that he IS fighting her political battles should be a red flag for some. But alas, most people aren't voting for Hillary, they are casting their vote for Bill, so they LIKE that he is speaking for her. To me, its insulting as a woman. The first woman to run for President, and her husband is fighting on her behalf. Let her speak for herself and fight her own battles, she doesn't need a man to do it on her behalf, she's quite capable. Yesterday Bill was in Missouri giving campaign speeches. All of the other Presidential nominees' spouses are side by side with them on the campaign trail, but Hillary splits up the country with her husband and lets him give speeches on her behalf. That does not sit well with me AT ALL. When is the last time a male candidate pulled that? Interesting that for a male that would make him look weak, but for a female it makes her a more viable candidate. Why is that?
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    I agree completely. Great posts on this thread. And the fact that he IS fighting her political battles should be a red flag for some. But alas, most people aren't voting for Hillary, they are casting their vote for Bill, so they LIKE that he is speaking for her. To me, its insulting as a woman. The first woman to run for President, and her husband is fighting on her behalf. Let her speak for herself and fight her own battles, she doesn't need a man to do it on her behalf, she's quite capable. Yesterday Bill was in Missouri giving campaign speeches. All of the other Presidential nominees' spouses are side by side with them on the campaign trail, but Hillary splits up the country with her husband and lets him give speeches on her behalf. That does not sit well with me AT ALL. When is the last time a male candidate pulled that? Interesting that for a male that would make him look weak, but for a female it makes her a more viable candidate. Why is that?
    Once again, I agree with you. And great posts from you, too.

    And you bring up a good point. Hillary is the first viable woman candidate, and instead of standing on her own two feet, she's got her husband as almost a co-candidate. It's amazing that more women haven't picked up on that and called her out on it. But since Bill is part of the package if Hillary gets elected, then I guess some people just turn a blind eye.

    And you're right, if a male candidate had his wife fighting his political battles on the campaign trail he would get ripped.

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    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Once again, I agree with you. And great posts from you, too.

    And you bring up a good point. Hillary is the first viable woman candidate, and instead of standing on her own two feet, she's got her husband as almost a co-candidate. It's amazing that more women haven't picked up on that and called her out on it. But since Bill is part of the package if Hillary gets elected, then I guess some people just turn a blind eye.

    And you're right, if a male candidate had his wife fighting his political battles on the campaign trail he would get ripped.
    If a male had his wife fighting his political battles, the media would be all over him and questioning why he's not strong enough to do it himself. He would be a running joke in the footnote of history. Can you even imagine? But Hillary does it, and the media laps it up and doesn't even question it. Because Bill gives her her credibility, whether people want to admit it or not. And its insulting. Someone on CNN said, "well, Hillary wouldn't be anything without Bill." Why aren't more females insisting that she fight her own battles? Is it because people secretly believe she can't accomplish anything without Bill to tell her how? We say we want gender equality, but we'll only back a female if she has a competent husband? Give me a break. And Bill has only driven me further from her campaign at this point, with his reckless comments about race and his constant digs at Obama. And like I said, Obama can't say or do anything, because his official candidate is Hillary. But if he's going to walk the walk and talk all this crap, then he should be held accountable for his remarks.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    If a male had his wife fighting his political battles, the media would be all over him and questioning why he's not strong enough to do it himself. He would be a running joke in the footnote of history. Can you even imagine? But Hillary does it, and the media laps it up and doesn't even question it. Because Bill gives her her credibility, whether people want to admit it or not. And its insulting. Someone on CNN said, "well, Hillary wouldn't be anything without Bill." Why aren't more females insisting that she fight her own battles? Is it because people secretly believe she can't accomplish anything without Bill to tell her how? We say we want gender equality, but we'll only back a female if she has a competent husband? Give me a break. And Bill has only driven me further from her campaign at this point, with his reckless comments about race and his constant digs at Obama. And like I said, Obama can't say or do anything, because his official candidate is Hillary. But if he's going to walk the walk and talk all this crap, then he should be held accountable for his remarks.
    Exactly. While Hillary is intelligent, experienced, and capable, the fact is Bill gives her that added boost and credibility. Hillary hasn't stood on her own two feet politically since she decided to run for the senate. She had Bill front and center in her campaign for the senate and she's doing it again now.

    And, yeah, you would think that more women would be pushing for Hillary to fight her own battles or that the media would be pressing the point. And I think more people would make an issue of it if her husband was anybody but Bill. But Hillary isn't stupid. She knows that Bill knows how to move a crowd just like Obama can, something which Hillary isn't capable of. So, in a wierd way, Obama is campaigning against both Bill and Hillary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Exactly. While Hillary is intelligent, experienced, and capable, the fact is Bill gives her that added boost and credibility. Hillary hasn't stood on her own two feet politically since she decided to run for the senate. She had Bill front and center in her campaign for the senate and she's doing it again now.
    And that's because he has that God-given gift for any politician - charisma. You may think the guy's a total sleazoid with the morals of an alley cat but even his most bitter enemies acknowledge he's got that X factor that other politicians, including his wife, can only dream of. There aren't many politicians, let alone Presidents who'd have survived the Monica Situation "I did NOT have sexual relations with that woman".

    If Hillary does appoint him to a senior government post I don't think people will say "oh, it's because he's her husband". They will say "she's using her most valuable political asset".

    Side Note: He came to Oz shortly after he left office on a worldwide lecture tour and a friend of mine happened to be staying in the same hotel in Sydney. She saw him in the hotel souvenir shop buying postcards and other Australiana crap and said you could FEEL the charisma from 50ft away. It wasn't the posse of security men and other clingons - he just has It.
    Why do people say "Grow some balls"? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really wanna get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding! -Betty White

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    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    And she doesn't have that charisma. And thats whats so apparent to me, as much as people go on and on about gender equality, the truth is that Hillary wouldn't be anywhere without her husband. People are voting for him, not her. And its sad that the same people talk out of two sides of their mouth, talking about how capable and strong she is, while at the same time urging her to promote her husband to the forefront of her campaign. I want to know about HER. And yes, Kingcap, Obama is running against both of them, which I cannot begin to understand how frustrating that process must be, especially since only one must "answer" to him come debate time.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

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