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Thread: Barack Obama confronts racial division in U.S. in speech

  1. #61
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    ^^^The people you are speaking of are really already biased against Obama and this gives them a conveniently pre-packaged excuse not to support him. They probably see more of themselves in McCain.

    I agree with your first paragraph about the double standards. I hate double standards.
    Exactly! Some of these people never intended to vote for Obama, but they wanted to have an nice little reason to latch onto to justify it. It's just like with people that never intended to vote for Hillary, so they'll latch onto something to justify not voting for her. McCain just adds the nice alternative.

    And I hate double-standards, too. Be it race or gender. Everybody needs to be held to the same standard, good or bad.

  2. #62
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    ^^^^Most people are more sympathetic to those who have expressed biases or slurs that they themselves have made or at least thought of. They find it easier to identify with a Viet nam vet who says 'gook' or a right wing extremist who thinks fags are immoral than they do with an elderly black man who may not think America is all that.

  3. #63
    Elite Member tkdgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiswinthorpe111 View Post
    PB, I actually agree with you here. This country was based on the separation of church and state, and I think religion and government have no place together. I dislike any notion of laws being issued based on faith and religion, ie, Pro Lifers, gay marriage, stem cells. There are people in this country who may not have the same religion, so why make their personal decisions and their laws subject to what your religion believes? *off soapbox*

    In regard to the Obama/Wright deal, I could really give a shit. I don't care what some Pastor says and if Obama heard what he said. There are plenty of people that say dumb and crazy shit, and I don't hold a protest to it. It's also protected under Freedom of speech. It's Wright point of view, whatever. I also think the assumption that Obama is "un-American" or racist because he may or may not have heard these remarks is also stupid.
    Ok. Fair enough. But that standard must be applied across the board, not just to the preacher of a liberal candidate for President.

    If you excuse Wright's comments under the first amendment, etc., then you also excuse all the other insanely stupid, racists, homophobic remarks from everyone else- including the likes of Falwell, Robertson, Jackson and Sharpton.

  4. #64
    Elite Member cherrypye's Avatar
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    I'm an Obama fantard. I would throw myself in front of a moving train for the man. I never once contemplated allowing the debate or these comments to sway in my support of him.

    I agree with much of what was said, and I don't think that disagreeing with policies executed by the Israeli government makes someone an anti-semite. I can disagree with Israel's executive decisions while still harboring no ill-will towards Jews. Just as many people disagree with America's decisions regarding the war, etc. They don't hate Americans, merely the decisions made by our executives.

  5. #65
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    I'm an Obama fantard. I would throw myself in front of a moving train for the man. I never once contemplated allowing the debate or these comments to sway in my support of him.
    See, that's just creepy. tell me that's sarcasm.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  6. #66
    Elite Member cherrypye's Avatar
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    It is. I was being facetious.

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    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanna View Post
    My problem is that all he does is say nice words. What is he going to do about the US economy, make a nice speech about it?
    Have you even looked at his website? It is literally DROWNING in detailed information about his policies, positions and record. This little argument about him giving 'nice speeches' and having no substance is hollow and false. It just shows you haven't bothered to look into him fully.

    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    ^^^The people you are speaking of are really already biased against Obama and this gives them a conveniently pre-packaged excuse not to support him. They probably see more of themselves in McCain.

    I agree with your first paragraph about the double standards. I hate double standards.
    I totally agree.

    King: can you link me to the bit about McCain being racist against the Vietnamese? I meant what I said earlier about being open to hearing the case against the man.

  8. #68
    Elite Member LynnieD's Avatar
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    Anyone happen to hear Howard Stern and Robin talking about this very speech today on the radio???

    Pretty interesting.....he had one side, she had another. Very similar to some of the arguments being made here. And guess what? They couldn't agree! Just like here!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    The problem in that is that you're going on the assumption that Obama's church somehow has the same beliefs as the pastor. That's like assuming that churches where you have pedophile priests support the belief of pedophilia. The pastor or priest's action do not automatically define the nature of the church.
    May I also add that that's not the only assumption being drawn. There's also the assumption

    -that the "God Damn America" sermon is indicative of a typical Sunday sermon at that church and encapsulates the totality of Rev Wright's beliefs

    -that preaching such a sermon makes one a hate-filled, anti-American racist on par with the KKK,

    -that anyone hearing such a sermon makes them equally a hate-filled, anti-American racist,

    -that considering a man who makes such a sermon a close friend and spiritual adviser makes one a hate-filled, anti-American racist,

    -that because we are not privy to any private conversations Obama had with Rev. Wright on the issue of his controversial sermons, they must not have had one.

    This whole controversy is ridiculous. It's based on a false premise and is supported by wild speculation and leaps of logic. I agree it's only being used by people to justify their Obama hate. And, I'm going to say since it no one else has, if it had been a speech made by a white pastor in a white church in front of a white congregation, it never would have been a controversy. Sermons very similar to it are made in white churches all the time. In fact, I bet you a pint of Ben & Jerry's Cheesecake Brownie ice cream that Mike Huckabee made one like it when he was a preacher.

  10. #70
    Elite Member tkdgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purewine View Post
    May I also add that that's not the only assumption being drawn. There's also the assumption

    -that the "God Damn America" sermon is indicative of a typical Sunday sermon at that church and encapsulates the totality of Rev Wright's beliefs

    -that preaching such a sermon makes one a hate-filled, anti-American racist on par with the KKK,

    -that anyone hearing such a sermon makes them equally a hate-filled, anti-American racist,

    -that considering a man who makes such a sermon a close friend and spiritual adviser makes one a hate-filled, anti-American racist,

    -that because we are not privy to any private conversations Obama had with Rev. Wright on the issue of his controversial sermons, they must not have had one.

    This whole controversy is ridiculous. It's based on a false premise and is supported by wild speculation and leaps of logic. I agree it's only being used by people to justify their Obama hate. And, I'm going to say since it no one else has, if it had been a speech made by a white pastor in a white church in front of a white congregation, it never would have been a controversy. Sermons very similar to it are made in white churches all the time. In fact, I bet you a pint of Ben & Jerry's Cheesecake Brownie ice cream that Mike Huckabee made one like it when he was a preacher.
    Yeah, wrong. Imus says nappy headed ho and he's fired. Trent Lott implied segregation remarks with Strom Thurmond and got demoted. The double standard exists, but it isn't the way you say it is. If this were a republican candidate for president who spent 20 years in a church spewing racial hatred, there is no way he would have made it past the first primary as the media and liberals would have had a field day.

    As I said before, if you excuse Wright's remarks, then you excuse everyone elses. You can not have it both ways.

    Funny you should mention Huckabee. He, just today, said Wright should be cut some slack. Birds of a feather indeed.

    If you don't find it disturbing that Obama says this:

    Obama's quote about Imus: “I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus,” Obama told ABC News, “but I would also say that there’s nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude.”

    BUT won't disavow the preacher of his own church, then there is something seriously wrong.

  11. #71
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkdgirl View Post
    Ok. Fair enough. But that standard must be applied across the board, not just to the preacher of a liberal candidate for President.

    If you excuse Wright's comments under the first amendment, etc., then you also excuse all the other insanely stupid, racists, homophobic remarks from everyone else- including the likes of Falwell, Robertson, Jackson and Sharpton.
    But what about the racial slurs that McCain publicly used? The question has to be asked, which is more relevant? Racist comments made by the pastor of one of the presidential candidates or racist comments made by the presidential candidate himself?

  12. #72
    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone is taking McCain serious in the first place, that's why we aren't whining over him.

  13. #73
    Elite Member tkdgirl's Avatar
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    ^^ I agree. McCain should be taken to the woodshed.

    But, in the same tone that Obama took, shouldn't McCain, who is of Wright's generation, get some slack for using a term (tar baby) he may not have known was racially offensive?

    ETA: Sweetie, yes. He's the kooky vet who isn't all there if Wright is the crazy uncle.

  14. #74
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie View Post
    I don't think anyone is taking McCain serious in the first place, that's why we aren't whining over him.
    He's the Republican nominee and could potentially become president. So, I don't understand how no one is taking him seriously? But it seems strange that people can whitewash McCain's comments, but want to hold Obama responsible for Wright's comments. You can't have it both ways.

    And if Obama is guilty by association when it comes to Wright, then shouldn't those people who support McCain, despite his racism, be guilty by association, too?

  15. #75
    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    Yes, they should. I don't care for Main, Obama or Clinton and I bash them all equally.
    I think they are all dishonest and have their own prejudices.

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