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Thread: Banned torture photos allegedly show US soldier raping female Iraqi prisoner

  1. #16
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Seeing as how Obama already released memos & photos on torture how is he trying to disallow public outrage?
    ... uh because he's blacklisted the most heinous examples and swept them under the carpet as NOT SCANDALOUS. Hello, i've repeated this like 5 times. His own words. What's really funny is that if they weren't scandalous, why wouldn't they be shown?

    Even with the info we've already seen America is split on torture. Some people think it's okay because of 9/11 and some people think people should be prosecuted. Showing rape photos isn't going to make the people who condone torture suddenly change their minds.
    Oh I'm pretty sure it would.. like the armchair coward neocons who don't think waterboarding is torture until THEY go through it.

    nobody needs to see rape photos, unless it's during a trial.
    That trial will never happen without public outrage because the idiot in chief has refused to prosecute.

    And Obama did what any leader of a nation would do in regards to photos showing his troops raping people. He tried to downplay it. Was it the right move? No. He should've said they are too graphic and we don't want to release them.
    Apparently they aren't scandalous and aren't anything to be concerned about according to him.

    And bringing the caskets into a discussion on rape photos is ridiculous. It's apples and oranges. Not even close to being the same thing.
    It's exacly the same thing. EXACTLY. Public perception redirected by a lack of information and lack of REAL tangible visible evidence.

    How is it NOT the same?


    The U.S. isn't going to leave Iraq anytime soon, even though we should. And I can see the point of lack of prosecution and condoning something. That's a good point.

    And I'm tired of liberals who are pissy that Obama doesn't see the world through the same narrow liberal prism bitching about everything he does that isn't staunchly liberal.
    Who said anything about liberal? How about what's just, civilised, and RIGHT.

    The liberals are becoming just as bad as the people on the right. I haven't agreed with everything Obama's done, and he has made mistakes. But I not going to blast him because he hasn't done everything the way I think he should, because no president will.
    How about just blasting the things he's doing WRONG, such as this.

    People on the left and the right need to understand that the world can't be governed from a liberal or conservative perspective. It doesn't work that way.
    How about the just way.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  2. #17
    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    28 May 2009 10:34 am
    Do The Photos Show Rape?

    The Telegraph reports on the pictures Obama is trying to keep from the public eye:
    At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee. Further photographs are said to depict sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube.

    Larisa Alexandrovna recalls that pictures of this sort have already been released and re-posts them.

    The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

    I don't have the heart to go to that site and see the photos, but do they show a rape taking place?

  3. #18
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post

    And unless the guy knew exactly what was going on and turned a blind eye you can't say he condoned it. Hell, that former General Janice Karpinski ran Abu Ghrab and I don't see people on the left saying she condoned it. She got thrown to the wolves by the right, but I don't see people on the left saying she should be charged or in jail. She apparently didn't know what was going on, so no one can say she condoned it.
    This man not only knew about torture, he authorized it- signed and approved. Rape as torture hasn't yet been mentioned in direct connection with him.

    There are some good articles out there on him, Esquire did a few pieces going back to 2006, Andrew Sullivan lately has picked it up...there's more.

    He was quoted as saying he'd 'never allow the Red Cross into the camp' that his ops were run from



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  4. #19
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Gen Taguba vs. Obama - who's lying?



    An interesting dynamic is emerging in the torture photo debate that deserves a mention. Last week when Obama decided to abandon his pledges of accountability and transparency in favor of state secrets and concessions democrats were unwilling to make with Bush in office, he made a pretty explicit statement:
    "I want to emphasise that these photos that were requested in this case are not particularly sensational, especially when compared to the painful images that we remember from Abu Ghraib."

    Of course, this explanation seemed a bit odd. We've known since 2004 that General Taguba's report found instances of sexual abuse and rape (although the assertion of "child rape" thus far exists only in the warped fantasies of some TPM posters). Now the good general has come out with additional statements that would seem to directly refute what the president said:
    "These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency. ... The mere description of these pictures is horrendous enough, take my word for it."
    It is impossible to reconcile the two statements. They simply can't both be true. So I guess the question becomes: who's lying here? Some immediately have jumped to the conclusion that Obama is the one making inaccurate statements. Based on the public records, they are probably right. Either Obama is completely clueless and hasn't actually reviewed all the pictures, or he knows what's in the pictures and is misrepresenting them.



    In either event, at the time of withholding the photos Obama also made some other assertions:
    Obama, explaining his change of heart on releasing the other photos, said they already had served their purpose in investigations of "a small number of individuals." Those cases were all concluded by 2004, and the president said "the individuals who were involved have been identified, and appropriate actions have been taken."
    So, riddle me this. If Obama isn't being forthcomming about the existence of "rape photos" - how can we possibly trust him that those who ordered and committed the abuses have actually been punished? Can we assume "appropriate action" even means punishment?

    If indeed, as Obama asserts, it was just a "small number of individuals" and "appropriate action" has already been taken; the victims deserve to know what punishment their abusers were given. The only way this would be a danger to our troops is if, after a full accounting, major of abuses had simply been swept under the carpet with a few soldiers handed up for show trials tied in a pretty bow. Considering the selection of McChrystal to lead our forces in Afghanistan, I think it's safe to say the ringleaders of Iraqi abuse have not been properly addressed.

    America no longer has the benefit of the doubt in the eyes of the world. Nor do we deserve it. Those suspicious of our actions will imagine the worst abuses were commonplace and assume the abusers are still walking free - while America offers nothing to refute this view. Until this issue is resolved once and for all, it will continue to put our troops at increased risk every day and undermine the credibility of this administration.

    So what is it Mr. President? Is Taguba lying, or are you?

    Gen Taguba vs. Obama - who's lying? | kgb999's Blog



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  5. #20
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    pretty sure Failbama is.
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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    ... uh because he's blacklisted the most heinous examples and swept them under the carpet as NOT SCANDALOUS. Hello, i've repeated this like 5 times. His own words. What's really funny is that if they weren't scandalous, why wouldn't they be shown?



    Oh I'm pretty sure it would.. like the armchair coward neocons who don't think waterboarding is torture until THEY go through it.



    That trial will never happen without public outrage because the idiot in chief has refused to prosecute.



    Apparently they aren't scandalous and aren't anything to be concerned about according to him.



    It's exacly the same thing. EXACTLY. Public perception redirected by a lack of information and lack of REAL tangible visible evidence.

    How is it NOT the same?




    Who said anything about liberal? How about what's just, civilised, and RIGHT.



    How about just blasting the things he's doing WRONG, such as this.



    How about the just way.
    1) I already agreed that he should've come up with a better answer than he did. And it can't just be that Obama doesn't think it's a good idea to release graphic rape photos, it has to be a master plan to dupe the public?

    2) You really think that people who are still pissed about 9/11 and are going to care about American troops raping Arab women. Why do you think some Americans don't care about torture, because it's happening to brown people so it's okay.

    3) And I think it's a big mistake for Obama to not prosecute or investigate anything. Because he runs the risk of his hands becoming just as dirty. But I understand why he's not doing it from a political stance.

    4) Since when is it civilized to show graphic photos to the public of anybody being raped outside of a court room.

    5) Showing caskets of dead soldiers coming home from war and showing rape photos are not the same thing. Not even close.

    How many countries have had troops rape civilians during times of war and then proudly displayed those photos for everyone to see. I don't care if the president is Obama or Bush nobody needs to release those photos to the public.

    6) As to what I think Obama's done wrong (he needs to take a harder stance with the banks/Wall Street like he's done with the car companies, he needs to make up his damn mind about what he wants to do about torture and stop riding the fence, I'm still not sure of his pick of Panetta to run the C.I.A. was the right move) That about cover it?

    When it comes to Obama you cheer him when he does something you personally agree with, and then he becomes 'failbama' when he does something you personally don't agree with. So how about you list the things you think he's done right.

    7) People on the left and the right believe that their way is the only just way. And sometimes it's somewhere in the middle.

  7. #22
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    This man not only knew about torture, he authorized it- signed and approved. Rape as torture hasn't yet been mentioned in direct connection with him.

    There are some good articles out there on him, Esquire did a few pieces going back to 2006, Andrew Sullivan lately has picked it up...there's more.

    He was quoted as saying he'd 'never allow the Red Cross into the camp' that his ops were run from
    Didn't know that. That's fucked up. That was a bad move on Obama's part to shift him to another command.

  8. #23
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    he wasn't just shifted.....they promoted him, and made him a 4 star general



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  9. #24
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    1) I already agreed that he should've come up with a better answer than he did. And it can't just be that Obama doesn't think it's a good idea to release graphic rape photos, it has to be a master plan to dupe the public?
    Good idea for whom? He's a politician, half of what he does, like any other, is to dupe the public. If we don't have an actual reason that makes SENSE, then he's duping the public.

    2) You really think that people who are still pissed about 9/11 and are going to care about American troops raping Arab women. Why do you think some Americans don't care about torture, because it's happening to brown people so it's okay.
    ... frankly, because they aren't aware of the brutality.

    3) And I think it's a big mistake for Obama to not prosecute or investigate anything. Because he runs the risk of his hands becoming just as dirty. But I understand why he's not doing it from a political stance.
    They already are just as dirty since he's refusing to do so, AND making contradictory statements to pretzel the logic.

    4) Since when is it civilized to show graphic photos to the public of anybody being raped outside of a court room.
    Since when is it civilized for said photos to never see the light of day in a courtroom because the public outrage is not there to push for it, and is being systematically supressed for that very purpose?

    5) Showing caskets of dead soldiers coming home from war and showing rape photos are not the same thing. Not even close.

    How many countries have had troops rape civilians during times of war and then proudly displayed those photos for everyone to see. I don't care if the president is Obama or Bush nobody needs to release those photos to the public.
    Again, My Lai. Without the public finding out, hearing the stories, seeing the evidence... NOTHING WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE. Same thing.

    6) As to what I think Obama's done wrong (he needs to take a harder stance with the banks/Wall Street like he's done with the car companies, he needs to make up his damn mind about what he wants to do about torture and stop riding the fence, I'm still not sure of his pick of Panetta to run the C.I.A. was the right move) That about cover it?

    When it comes to Obama you cheer him when he does something you personally agree with, and then he becomes 'failbama' when he does something you personally don't agree with.
    No, when he does something demonstrably incorrect.

    So how about you list the things you think he's done right.
    In time, I'm at work. It's a shorter list than what he's done wrong.

    7) People on the left and the right believe that their way is the only just way. And sometimes it's somewhere in the middle.
    Just, as in in accordance with the law, international law, articles of war, the standards used by the planet tojudge what is right and wrong, barring any rejigging like "enhanced interrogation" replacing "torture"
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  10. #25
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    My Lai is an interesting point....especially as it was Seymour Hersh that helped to bring both of these stories, 40 years apart, out into the light



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  11. #26
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Gibbs slams British press; denies Telegraph report

    During today's White House briefing, CBS's Chip Reid asked Robert Gibbs about a Daily Telegraph report that claims there are photographs of U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners which include images of rape and sexual abuse.

    General Antonio Taguba confirmed the photographs authenticity to the Telegraph, telling the paper that they "show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency." Still, Taguba said he agreed with President Obama's decision to reverse course and not release additional photos of prisoner abuse.

    Gibbs not only reminded the press corps that the Pentagon denied the report, but used the opportunity to take shots at the British press.

    "I want to speak generally about some reports I've witnessed over the past few years in the British media," Gibbs said. "In some ways, I'm surprised it filtered down."

    "Let's just say if I wanted to look up, if I wanted to read a write-up of how Manchester United fared last night in the Champions League Cup, I'd might open up a British newspaper," he continued. "If I was looking for something that bordered on truthful news, I'm not entirely sure it'd be the first pack of clips I'd pick up."

    When the photo question came up later, Gibbs similarly denied the Telegraph report, but also said that he hadn't seen all the photos.




    Gibbs slams British press; denies Telegraph report - Michael Calderone - POLITICO.com



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    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    I'm assuming these are additional pictures from 2004?

    I'm inclined to believe General Taguba in the content of these photos.

    What's going to be interesting if these photos see the light of day is the blind pro war crowd's attempt to spin it. It's one thing to show a picture of a detainee being made to stand hooded on a box and compare it side by side to a beheading (to show that "they" are far worse). However, what idiot is going to compare a picture of a graphic abuse of detainees and try to make it as if the 'enemy' is doing far worse?

  13. #28
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    I'm starting to hate that fat fuckhead Gibbs more every day. Frankly, he should not even be commenting on the state of bias in news given the US's rather pathetic history on the subject.

    I'll take BBC over CNN.
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    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Obama has made Gen. McChrystal commander of US forces in Afghanistan. McChrystal headed up special ops in Iraq, where some of the worst torture was committed...So we'll be bringing that to Afghanistan.

    Proof it's not only condoned by the new admin, but rewarded
    Didn't you post a story about his appointment? I looked for it and I can't find it. What's the controversy over him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cali View Post
    Didn't you post a story about his appointment? I looked for it and I can't find it. What's the controversy over him?
    The Special Ops community seems to like the choice of McChrystal. He's known as a no b.s. type of aggressive leader.

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