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Thread: Bailout bill about to fail, Republicans killing it. Market crashing.

  1. #76
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    I just saw that 67% of Dems voted for the plan. Only 33 of Reps did. They turned on their President and McCain. They claim they have gotten millins of calls. They fail to realize these calls are from people who fail to comprehend the big picture.

    Personally I will be fine. Tomorrow morning I will buy, buy, buy.

  2. #77
    Elite Member LynnieD's Avatar
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    ^^Wish I had your enthusiasm Sluce!!

    We have money we COULD sink into the market, but are soooooo cautious of doing so, which is part of the problem!

    Please choose wisely!

  3. #78
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Just think carefully about which sectors to buy into. Medical is good right now since so many suffered serious stress today!

  4. #79
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    sigh...

  5. #80
    A*O
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    I cannot believe that just a few short weeks before a Too Close To Call election the Republicans have made themselves appear to be deliberately sabotaging a "Rescue Plan" for Mr & Mrs Average American who suddenly realise that years of irresponsible borrowing and spending is going to leave them way up Shit Creek without a paddle.

    I know it's way more complicated than that but to most GOP voters this will look like a betrayal.
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  6. #81
    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    Journalists and opinionists alike think the Republicans have screwed themselves and should expect losing even more seats than previously expected.

  7. #82
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Pelosi Tips the Scales?

    The more that I think about this, the more I think that the failure of the bailout package in Congress today was something of an inevitability -- perhaps the only way to right the perverse incentives that had been at work.

    The Republicans' best-case scenario was the bill passing the House by one vote -- with as few as those votes as possible coming from Republicans.

    Their worst-case scenario for them might have been ... what just happened this afternoon. Opposing the bailout had been a political freeroll before because it wasn't manifest to the public what the risks of a nay vote would be. But with the Dow having dropped 780 points today, the risks are now painfully obvious. What had looked to be a politically prudent position 24 hours ago now looks cavalier and reckless. And yet, the Republicans will still by and large will get blamed for putting us in this predicament in the first place. Plus, the failure of the bill is an embarrassment to John McCain...

    I'm not saying that Pelosi's ostensibly partisan speech today (which I still haven't heard) was a deliberate attempt to sabotage the bill. The margin was such that the bill was almost certainly headed for failure regardless. But her risks were pretty well hedged if the bill failed -- much better, it turns out, than the Republicans' were. Roy Blunt and John Boehner ought to have known to build in a fudge factor. They didn't, and now their party is liable to suffer as a result.

    -- Nate Silver at 5:55 PM

  8. #83
    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    Pelosi's Speech:
    Madam Speaker, when was the last time someone asked you for $700 billion? It is a number that is staggering, but tells us only the costs of the Bush Administration's failed economic policies -- policies built on budgetary recklessness, on an anything goes mentality, with no regulation, no supervision, and no discipline in the system. Democrats believe in the free market, which can and does create jobs, wealth, and capital, but left to its own devices it has created chaos.

    That chaos is the dismal picture painted by Treasury Secretary Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Bernanke a week and a half ago in the Capitol. As they pointed out, we confront a crisis of historic magnitude that has the ability to do serious injury not simply to our economy, but to the American people: not just to Wall Street, but to everyday Americans on Main Street. It is our responsibility today, to help avert that catastrophic outcome. Let us be clear: This is a crisis caused on Wall Street. But it is a crisis that reaches to Main Street in every city and town of the United States.

    It is a crisis that freezes credit, causes families to lose their homes, cripples small businesses, and makes it harder to find jobs.

    It is a crisis that never had to happen. It is now the duty of every Member of this body to recognize that the failure to act responsibly, with full protections for the American taxpayer, would compound the damage already done to the financial security of millions of American families.
    Over the past several days, we have worked with our Republican colleagues to fashion an alternative to the original plan of the Bush Administration.


    I must recognize the outstanding leadership provided by Chairman Barney Frank, whose enormous intellectual and strategic abilities have never before been so urgently needed, or so widely admired.


    I also want to recognize Rahm Emanuel, who combined his deep knowledge of financial institutions with his pragmatic policy experience, to resolve key disagreements.


    Secretary Paulson deserves credit for working day and night to help reach an agreement and for his flexibility in negotiating changes to his original proposal.


    Democrats insisted that legislation responding to this crisis must protect the American people and Main Street from the meltdown on Wall Street.


    The American people did not decide to dangerously weaken our regulatory and oversight policies. They did not make unwise and risky financial deals. They did not jeopardize the economic security of the nation. And they must not pay the cost of this emergency recovery and stabilization bill.


    So we insisted that this bill contain several key provisions:


    This legislation must contain independent and ongoing oversight to ensure that the recovery program is managed with full transparency and strict accountability.
    The legislation must do everything possible to allow as many people to stay in their homes rather than face foreclosure.


    The corporate CEOs whose companies will benefit from the public's participation in this recovery must not benefit by exorbitant salaries and golden parachute retirement bonuses. [The real reason the Republicans opposed the bill.]



    Our message to Wall Street is this: the party is over. The era of golden parachutes for high-flying Wall Street operators is over. No longer will the U.S. taxpayer bailout the recklessness of Wall Street.


    The taxpayers who bear the risk in this recovery must share in the upside as the economy recovers.
    And should this program not pay for itself, the financial institutions that benefited, not the taxpayers, must bear responsibility for making up the difference.



    These were the Democratic demands to safeguard the American taxpayer, to help the economy recover, and to impose tough accountability as a central component of this recovery effort.


    This legislation is not the end of congressional activity on this crisis. Over the course of the next few weeks, we will continue to hold investigative and oversight hearings to find out how the crisis developed, where mistakes were made, and how the recovery must be managed to protect the middle class and the American taxpayer.


    With passage of this legislation today, we can begin the difficult job of turning our economy around, of helping those who depend on a growing economy and stable financial institutions for a secure retirement, for the education of their children, for jobs and small business credit.


    Today we must act for those Americans, for Main Street, and we must act now, with the bipartisan spirit of cooperation which allowed us to fashion this legislation.

    This not enough. We are also working to restore our nation's economic strength by passing a new economic recovery stimulus package -- a robust, job creating bill -- that will help Americans struggling with high prices, get our economy back on track, and renew the American Dream.


    Today, we will act to avert this crisis, but informed by our experience of the past eight years with the failed economic leadership that has left us left capable of meeting the challenges of the future. We choose a different path. In the new year, with a new Congress and a new president, we will break free with a failed past and take America in a New Direction to a better future.
    She takes a few jabs at the Bush Administration, but she otherwise talks about BIPARTISANSHIP and how they worked together on the bill. The Bush Administration is in the Executive branch, a completely different one from Congress, so how could the House Republicans get upset?

    Liars.

  9. #84
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  10. #85
    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    Trailhead : Nancy Pelosi’s $700 Billion Speech
    Nancy Pelosi’s $700 Billion Speech

    House Republicans and the McCain campaign are currently blaming Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s speech today introducing the bailout package for its failure. According to this narrative, she managed to alienate a dozen Republicans who otherwise would have voted for the bill.
    But read Pelosi’s speech. (Transcript here.)* She wasn’t bashing Republicans; she was bashing Bush. She said the $700 billion price tag “tells us only the costs of the Bush administration’s failed economic policies—policies built on budgetary recklessness, on an anything-goes mentality, with no regulation, no supervision, and no discipline in the system.” Later, she thanked Democratic leaders Barney Frank and Rahm Emanuel while conspicuously omitting minority leader John Boehner. But she did thank Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. Doesn’t he count?
    Granted, it may have sounded unpleasant to sensitive Republican ears. But GOP members can hardly object to Bush-bashing—in fact, many of them have done it themselves. Vulnerable GOP congressmen have scrambled to distance themselves from the president on Iraq, immigration, Katrina, and now economic policy. Sure, Pelosi could have been more gracious to Boehner and other Republicans who voted for the package, especially after such delicate negotiations. But her speech also showed Democrats that you can be for the bailout and still run on a Bush-bashing economic message. It’s a message you’d think would resonate with Republicans, too.
    So what’s the advantage of the “hurt my feelings” excuse? Not only does it defy belief—does anyone really think 12 members of the House of Representatives actually changed their minds on this bill because of a speech?—but it allows Obama to take the high road and look presidential. His campaign decried McCain’s “angry and hyperpartisan statement”—McCain had blamed the failure on Obama and fellow Democrats—but refused to point fingers back. “Now is the time for Democrats and Republicans to join together and act in a way that prevents an economic catastrophe.”
    In the short term, at least, the advantage is Obama’s. First, it means the financial crisis is likely to stay in the news for a while longer—and he enjoys a huge margin over McCain when the issue is the economy. Second, McCain explicitly injected himself into the bailout negotiations, thereby lashing himself to the results.

    He was taking credit for this bill before it passed. Does that mean he should get blamed for its failure?


    *UPDATE: Turns out Pelosi ad-libbed quite a bit of the speech, including this potentially divisive line: "... Democrats believe in a free market ... but in this case, in its unbridled form as encouraged, supported by the Republicans — some in the Republican Party, not all — it has created not jobs, not capital, it has created chaos." See the video here.
    Lame.

  11. #86
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    This was already covered in one of tdkgirl's threads a couple days ago... i wonder what happened in 2006.. hrmm..
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  12. #87
    Silver Member crawdad's Avatar
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    The samething that happened in "04".

  13. #88
    Elite Member Shinola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotncmom View Post
    Banks will keep lending for heaven's sake. But thanks to the Republican policies over the last 8 years, they started lending to any loser who could sign his name on a mortgage document. There used to be standards where you actually had to have a down payment and good credit and little things like that. They need to bring that back. Yes, a lot of people will not be able to afford homes. A lot of people will have to scale back their McMansions. Boo hoo.
    As a person who scraped together a downpayment of 5% and had the common sense to get a 5.5% fixed rate mortgage, and to buy a house that we could actually afford and still be able to eat and go on vacations and stuff, I have little sympathy for those who overextended themselves.
    Sorry, but although credit did get too easy to obtain, now it is waaaay too hard to obtain. A family member works for a Big Bank (and has been on the Stock Market, too), and for months said bank has not been lending money to practically anyone, regardless of how great their credit. Without servicing loans, the bank cannot make money, so this policy makes little sense ultimately.

    Where I live, basic houses--not McMansions--still cost a freaking fortune, even though the market has gone down a lot. Middle-class people stretched to get into these houses because they felt they had to. Some of them needed the tax breaks of home ownership. Most of them can see that the standard home-loan term is 30 years, which gives you time to buy a house as an adult, pay it off, and then live in it as a retiree. Home ownership historically has frozen housing costs for wage earners, by protecting them from inflation, whereas rent just keeps going up with rising inflation. Home ownership is what the middle class has been doing for at least a couple of generations in order to sort out our lives.

    I don't necessarily feel sorry for everyone who has lost their homes and will lose them--I know people who have done foolish things. Like you, we scraped together our down payment and took a fixed-rate mortgage. But we still felt the house was too expensive and believed the market was peaking, so we made the heartbreaking decision to sell. Two weeks later, the market flatlined. We were lucky enough to get out. Had we waited, our house would've lost so much value it wouldn't have made any sense to stay in it.

    Things have gotten so bad here that I know people who are very stable and earn a lot of money and even have significant equity in their homes but are considering walking away from their mortgages, because they don't believe their houses will be worth what they paid within their lifetimes. So this is a problem that has started to go way past just a few bad choices by marginal home owners.
    Posted from my fucking iPhone

  14. #89
    A*O
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    Markets swing up and down all the time. The cycle may take a few years but prices WILL recover in time. So while it may seem crazy to be paying a mortgage on a "worthless" house in the short term, provided you plan to live there for the next few years the long term outlook is still good. Panic selling is what drives the market down.
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  15. #90
    Elite Member Rica's Avatar
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    ^ The best thing anyone can do is sit tight and wait and see. If you lose some money, you lose it, but the market will come back up and you will gain money again.

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