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Thread: Bad news on Don't Ask, Don't Tell: no repeal, more bigotry, White House cowardice

  1. #16
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    See, THEY are the ones with the problem. They should be segregated, and then used as fucking cannon fodder that everybody else gets behind.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  2. #17
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    The Middle East is important, has been important, to vital US security needs. That's especially true in this era of terror.

    Obama isn't Bush. We wouldn't have had the stimulus plan with McCain or with Bush, and that stimulus has helped the economy. True, it hasn't been large enough, but half a loaf is better than none. Obama has also had a very different environmental and science record than Bush. Ditto his judicial appointments. Ditto passage of the Fair Pay act. Ditto a dozen other small bore things.

    Yes, he's not the great liberal hope, but he's a far cry from George W Bush. In fact, I would say his presidency thus far is looking a whole lot like Clinton's.

    Yes, I do think he can be empowered to do the right thing, and saying "I want the tea baggers to win" doesn't help. But I guess it's easy to sit back and sneer from Canada.

  3. #18
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Stop voting Democrat, for one. They haven't done shit all for gays. They say they will, take your money and votes and then tell you to get the fuck lost.

    People need to break out of "but the GOP will win!" mindset. So what? What changes if they do? Nothing. They're both 2 heads of the same corporately controlled monster.
    You can't be fucking serious. As an Independent, its this kind of mindset that scares me - and maybe you can say this because you're not an American voter, so you can afford to solely focus on ONE issue and that one issue only. But to say that Republicans are the same as Democrats, Obama is the same as Bush, etc., thats just silly - and to say that it doesn't matter how you vote, its all the same, well thats just an ignorant notion. Maybe on this ONE issue thats not moving as fast as it should be, the Democrats have failed us. But we should just hang our heads and not vote Democrat anymore, and set back years of social progress to have someone like Caribou Barbie in office to somehow prove some sort of point? Thats ridiculous. You can't be serious that a Republican with a conservative social agenda should just go ahead and take over, we would all be screwed, not just gays but also women and all minorities. Thats NOT the way to go about things, and I don't believe you actually believe something so ridiculous. You stand ZERO chance with someone with a conservative social agenda in power. ZERO. And you're just fueling the fire on the conservative right with those kind of asinine comments, which is defeating the very purpose that you claim to want. You're just giving them your support and making them stronger, so they can continue to oppress you. But I guess you can take that chance since you don't live here in America and so it doesn't affect you anyway. I don't give a damn what anyone says, its ridiculous to say that Obama is no better than Bush, or to say that it wouldn't have mattered if McCain and Caribou Barbie were elected. Fuck no, I would be terrified to see how that would have turned out.
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  4. #19
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    Stop voting Democrat, for one. They haven't done shit all for gays. They say they will, take your money and votes and then tell you to get the fuck lost.

    I'm getting whiplash from all your advice - so now you don't like Obama?

  5. #20
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visitor42 View Post
    The Middle East is important, has been important, to vital US security needs. That's especially true in this era of terror.
    Vital how? Free flowing oil? It has no other use. The continued coddling of Israel matched with the continual siding of the US with despots (House of Saud) will keep things bouncing around forever there. The situation in that area hasn't changed in 50 years.

    Obama isn't Bush.
    Then, my dear, why is he continuing 90% of Bush era policies?

    We wouldn't have had the stimulus plan with McCain or with Bush, and that stimulus has helped the economy. True, it hasn't been large enough, but half a loaf is better than none.
    That's crap, McTard would have been FORCED to implement something or face outright governmental mutiny. Secondly, the stimulus stopped the free fall, but it's a short term tactic. The economy will tank again in 2010-2011 because the rotting system that is in place, aided and abetted by Geithner, Summers, and all the other losers Obama hired (who helped create said system) are at the helm. There will be no financial reform whatsoever.

    Obama has also had a very different environmental and science record than Bush.
    Oh yes, the stem cell research thing. That's about the only right thing he's done.

    Ditto his judicial appointments.
    Sotomayer? The jury is still out on her (pardon the pun). She's catholic, like Scalia.

    Ditto passage of the Fair Pay act.
    Which was created by congress and which he had nothing to do with.

    Ditto a dozen other small bore things.
    Big deal. When he does a 180 on every major campaign promise, the little things don't add up to much.

    Yes, he's not the great liberal hope, but he's a far cry from George W Bush. In fact, I would say his presidency thus far is looking a whole lot like Clinton's.
    He's actually not very far from Bush at all, given that 90% of the policies he's enforcing are Bush's. FISA, indefinite detention, 2 wars, questionable environmental policies (clean coal? give me a break), etc etc..

    Yes, I do think he can be empowered to do the right thing, and saying "I want the tea baggers to win" doesn't help.
    He's not interested in being empowered to do the right thing, if he was he wouldn't have done a 180 on his campaign! God, why is this fact escaping people. He wouldn't have thrown women and gays under the bus. He wouldn't have sold out health reform to insurance companies. He wouldnt be continuing to spy on people illegally. ON AND ON AND ON.

    This whole "he's a good person" crap is delusional in the face of reality.

    But I guess it's easy to sit back and sneer from Canada.
    No, it's easier to be objective and not wear pompoms or be enamored with personality.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  6. #21
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    The economy will tank again in 2010-2011 because the rotting system that is in place, aided and abetted by Geithner, Summers, and all the other losers Obama hired (who helped create said system) are at the helm. There will be no financial reform whatsoever.
    QFT. The people that helped bring us here are now going to fix it? Not likely.
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  7. #22
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    You can't be fucking serious. As an Independent, its this kind of mindset that scares me - and maybe you can say this because you're not an American voter, so you can afford to solely focus on ONE issue and that one issue only.
    Uh, who the fuck is focusing on one issue only?

    FISA

    Indefinite detention

    Bad environmental policy

    Bad economic policy

    Health insurance boondoggle

    2 wars without end

    etc etc, i can keep going if you like.

    But to say that Republicans are the same as Democrats, Obama is the same as Bush, etc., thats just silly - and to say that it doesn't matter how you vote, its all the same, well thats just an ignorant notion.
    Really? So both parties aren't owned by the same corporations? Obama didn't just sell health care to the insurance companies with backroom deals that were blown? The economic policies of Bush and Reagan haven't been continued?

    Maybe on this ONE issue thats not moving as fast as it should be, the Democrats have failed us.
    Uh no, try 90% of them. I keep listing them but apparently they just go ignored.

    But we should just hang our heads and not vote Democrat anymore, and set back years of social progress to have someone like Caribou Barbie in office to somehow prove some sort of point? Thats ridiculous.
    .. and there is how they have trapped you. "Vote for us, we're marginally less bad than the other guy, and you have nowhere to turn to anyway". They don't actually have to DO anything to earn your votes. All they have to do is say a few pretty words, promise this and that, and never actually make good on any of it. What social progress has their been under Democrats? Real sweeping changes that THEY enacted, fought for, pushed for, and expended political capital for? Pretty much NONE.

    Quite the opposite, in fact.

    You can't be serious that a Republican with a conservative social agenda should just go ahead and take over, we would all be screwed, not just gays but also women and all minorities.
    What I'm saying is to make, MAKE Democrats actually keep their promises you need to threaten them with something.. something like NOT BEING IN POWER. Until you threaten them (which just happened with Coakley), nothing gets done. They do not view you as a threat. They view you as a demographic to be counted on because hey.. you have nowhere else to go, right? That's how Dem voters get fucked, and especially how LGBT voters get fucked HARD. They take the votes and the money and give absolutely no return on investment beyond some pretty speeches which mean dick all.

    Thats NOT the way to go about things, and I don't believe you actually believe something so ridiculous. You stand ZERO chance with someone with a conservative social agenda in power. ZERO.
    And you stand pretty much about the same with Democrats. Are you people not listening? 180 degree turns on all major campaign issues, selling out of social issues. The only difference between Dems and Repugs is the Repugs will tell you straight up they fucking hate you and will make your life shit. Democrats say "We're with you, we're fierce defenders, gimme your money and votes" and then they do a 180, stab you in the back, and then ask for MORE money and votes.

    And you're just fueling the fire on the conservative right with those kind of asinine comments, which is defeating the very purpose that you claim to want.
    Yeah, pointing out the reality on the ground is "fueling the fire". WHo is providing that fuel? Democrats. They are defeating themselves. If me pointing out how they have failed helps the right wing, well maybe, just maybe, THEY SHOULDNT FAIL SO MUCH. The people aren't causing all the failure. Voters aren't causing the Democrats to govern badly. They're just watching and saying "Hey, wait a minute, you're doing badly!" Why are you trying to shoot the messenger? You people are so fucking programmed.

    You're just giving them your support and making them stronger, so they can continue to oppress you.
    No, voting for them gives them support. Donating money to their cause gives them support. Simply pointing out how the people that are supposed to represent you have failed does not support the opposition.

    Again, you're trying to shoot the messenger. "Oh don't point out that the Dems are doing stupid, awful things cuz that will help their opponents". Do you realize how moronic that sounds? Are people just supposed to shut up and not critique the party in power because its "your team", even when they do things that are wrong?

    No wonder your country is in such horrible shape, with that kind of mentality. It's like watching sheep play football, mindlessly bleating support for a team that plays badly, but buying year after year of seasons tickets because the head of the franchise says "Hey, this time we're really going to do it! We're really going to win, despite not changing any players or listening to our coach!"

    Another metaphor you could use is Lucy yanking the ball out from under Charlie Brown time and again. The Dems are Lucy. Dem voters are Charlie brown. What's worse. Charlie Brown showing up to have Lucy fuck with him, or there being no game at all if the GOP got in?

    But I guess you can take that chance since you don't live here in America and so it doesn't affect you anyway. I don't give a damn what anyone says, its ridiculous to say that Obama is no better than Bush, or to say that it wouldn't have mattered if McCain and Caribou Barbie were elected. Fuck no, I would be terrified to see how that would have turned out.
    Well look around you: Obama is continuing most of Bush's policies. The fact that you don't want to accept that reality is really hilarious. My team vs Their team, and Their Team is always bad and My Team is always good.

    *drools brainlessly*

    Christ on a crutch.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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