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Thread: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

  1. #106
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by JungleMonkey
    hmmmm. well Grimm it is pretty obvious that you are always and without fail going to side with anyone or anything that is anti-American. You chime in on issues such as this one in which you really don't have any reason, seeing that you are not an American citizen. So your input here doesn't carry much weight other than the fact you do like to agitate and be as offensive as possible to and toward Americans who actually appreciate living in a free country.
    No, I'm, not always on the side of everything anti-american, that's patently false. Do you consider the US government the entirety of American existence? I would hope not.

    Do I take issue with EVERYTHING said government does? No, I don't.

    You people keep making the same mistakes: You think criticism of the US gov is a criticism of EVERYTHING America is and is made up of.

    p.s. Your country isn't free when you can be locked up indefinitely, without charge, tortured to death, your communications spied upon with no legal recourse,
    spirited away to foreign gulags for information extraction, etc

    Your idea of freedom is pretty sick if you consider that 'freedom®'

    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyPool
    You know something, if you remove the rod just a 1/4 inch you might lighten up a little. I did not say terrorist sympathiser so nice try on that one. You do walk a fine line, I think, on some of your threads but I accept that I may be just a tad more conservative then most here. Seems like your wrong on this issue though. Some things are black and white and don't need a philisophical cleansing.
    So, in essence, you're wrong. Took long enough. Sheesh.

    What you consider black and white might not be to others. Considering how much has been written about this issue, I'm going to hazard a guess that the label of "black and white" doesn't apply.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  2. #107
    Gold Member deckchick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    I too am of the opinion that the war in Iraq is illegal and unjust. In spite of that, I 100% support the troops that are there. But I gotta say Grim you are way off base in your original statements

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlock
    See, this is the kind of quote that makes a soldier/marine/boat jockey seem like a robot:

    Quote:
    "We're here to serve our country and fight and that's his job," said Private Nathan Hanson. "It's his duty." .
    How is this a "robotic" statement? It IS his job to serve and fight. He earned the benefits of his signed agreement, now it's his turn to uphold his side of the agreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlock
    Yeah, well that doesn't mean you give up your conscience or ethical standards.
    If his conscience and/or ethics truly don't allow him to go, pay back the money that the Armed Forces have given him, and the costs he has incurred for training.

    Until he offers that, I too say he is just another coward and hypocrite.
    Vegetarian - Old Indian word for "Bad Hunter"

  3. #108
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by deckchick
    I too am of the opinion that the war in Iraq is illegal and unjust. In spite of that, I 100% support the troops that are there. But I gotta say Grim you are way off base in your original statements
    In your opinion.

    How is this a "robotic" statement? It IS his job to serve and fight. He earned the benefits of his signed agreement, now it's his turn to uphold his side of the agreement.
    Unthinking service IS robotic. The guy could have skipped the country, but no. He chose the legal route to voice his disagreement with the entire ordeal.

    If his conscience and/or ethics truly don't allow him to go, pay back the money that the Armed Forces have given him, and the costs he has incurred for training.
    He had served in full capacity up to this point, earning his pay. That statement is ridiculous.

    Until he offers that, I too say he is just another coward and hypocrite.
    Based on nothing.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  4. #109
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    It's ridiculous to expect him to repay for training he refuses to use? Come on, now.
    "I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

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  5. #110
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    No, it's ridiculous to think he should repay his employer for all the work he's already done up to this point. He did his job.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  6. #111
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    His training was given to him in good faith that he would implement it. They wouldn't have trained him otherwise. Common sense says that training people for no purpose is an expensive folly.
    "I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

    Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.

  7. #112
    Elite Member MrsMarsters's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Well if you wanna be technical about it...originally the military wasn't about blindly following your leader even if you thought it was wrong. It was about serving and protecting your country at all cost, but having honor. And it's just sad that our country doesn't see to have that anymore. I am really disgusted at what we have become. Money, is more important than our own people?
    Life will break you. Nobody can protect you from that, and living alone won't either, for solitude will also break you with its yearning. You have to love. You have to feel. Horrible isn't it? It makes you so vulnerable.

  8. #113
    Elite Member moomies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Just adding my 2 cents (prolly not even 2 cents worth, it's more like 0.2 cent ).

    I don't think this lieutenant is a coward, it takes courage to stand up for what you believe in, in such a public manner and accept scrutiny and criticisms.
    I agree with Grimm that this guy could've run away to a different country and gone in hiding, ppl have done that in the past, but he chose to come public and doing this the legal way.
    At the same time I also agree with others that it is unfair that he is refusing to do what he got trained for (for free) and that it is his duty to follow commands.

    If you think it's crazy, you ain't seen a thing. Just wait until we're goin down in flames.

  9. #114
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Things are what they are. If you choose to join the military, you are choosing to abdicate a good percentage of choice regarding your location, your food, your clothing, your living environment and your daily activities.

    You sacrifice those things in exchange for money, training, travel, whatever.

    It's a CHOICE.
    "I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

    Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.

  10. #115
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobelia
    His training was given to him in good faith that he would implement it. They wouldn't have trained him otherwise. Common sense says that training people for no purpose is an expensive folly.
    Ok, it's not like they trained him and then had him sit in a cabinet for 2 years, waiting to be busted out of his shrinkwrapping and go off to Iraq LOL

    He was WORKING before he was sent off, hellooo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobelia
    Things are what they are. If you choose to join the military, you are choosing to abdicate a good percentage of choice regarding your location, your food, your clothing, your living environment and your daily activities.

    You sacrifice those things in exchange for money, training, travel, whatever.

    It's a CHOICE.
    So is appealing using legal means.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  11. #116
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    A huge portion of military service is training.
    "I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

    Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.

  12. #117
    Gold Member Delphinium's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobelia
    Sorry to stir the shit, but I think this war is anti-American. I think it's based on lies & excuses, and it has magnified hatred for Americans exponentially. It makes me afraid for the safety of my children.
    But if you are an American citizen you have every right to "stir the poo". But an outsider who is not a citizen really has no business spouting off about American issues or politics. Grimm can blather on about it, but being that he really has nothing at stake other than ticking off everyone and anyone he can by being so outlandish... kinda makes his views irrelevant except for pure entertainment value.

  13. #118
    Hit By Ban Bus! DirtyPool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by JungleMonkey
    But if you are an American citizen you have every right to "stir the poo". But an outsider who is not a citizen really has no business spouting off about American issues or politics. Grimm can blather on about it, but being that he really has nothing at stake other than ticking off everyone and anyone he can by being so outlandish... kinda makes his views irrelevant except for pure entertainment value.
    Score it! 3 points from the top of the arc...and now a word from Campbell's Soup. mmm mmm good.

    p.s. I do enjoy Grimm secretly - i'll deny it if accused.

  14. #119
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Well if you wanna be technical about it...originally the military wasn't about blindly following your leader even if you thought it was wrong. It was about serving and protecting your country at all cost, but having honor. And it's just sad that our country doesn't see to have that anymore. I am really disgusted at what we have become. Money, is more important than our own people?

    Well said, Mrs. Marsters. Integrity, honor, character...they all seem to mean diddly these days. There was a time when thoughtful people were in the majority but that's gone by the wayside.

    Oh, and I adore Grimm. He makes life interesting.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

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  15. #120
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by JungleMonkey
    But if you are an American citizen you have every right to "stir the poo". But an outsider who is not a citizen really has no business spouting off about American issues or politics. Grimm can blather on about it, but being that he really has nothing at stake other than ticking off everyone and anyone he can by being so outlandish... kinda makes his views irrelevant except for pure entertainment value.
    Excuse me? What America does affects the ENTIRE PLANET. I have every right to spout off, and in actuality I have even MORE of a right since I have no way of affecting the internal processes of the damned country. America can affect MY world, but I can't affect America.

    That gives me more right than you to be pissed off.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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