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Thread: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

  1. #91
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    It's nothing alike at all! He's not dictating to anybody.

    Big difference.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  2. #92
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    It's alike in the sense that they are both refusing to do the jobs for which they're paid, based on ethical conflicts.
    "I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

    Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.

  3. #93
    Elite Member burnt_toast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    It's nothing alike at all! He's not dictating to anybody.

    Big difference.
    It's absolutely the same. When you are in any sort of service (military or civilian) refusing to do your job has ramifications. In one case someone has to drive to a different pharmacy - in the other case someone has to take his place in battle.

  4. #94
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobelia
    It's alike in the sense that they are both refusing to do the jobs for which they're paid, based on ethical conflicts.
    True, but in the case of this guy he has a legal recourse as there are allowances for this type of thing based on certain proceedings.

    Also, his refusal to go is not violating the rights of anybody else.

    Quote Originally Posted by cloud
    It's absolutely the same. When you are in any sort of service (military or civilian) refusing to do your job has ramifications. In one case someone has to drive to a different pharmacy - in the other case someone has to take his place in battle.
    Yes, someone else does have to take his place but, again, that is a result of the system in place for such things. It's not some sort of personal vendetta, nor is it directly linked to his conflicvt of ethics. It's a proxy result at best.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  5. #95
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Whether or not he's violating anyone else's rights is debatable, although I tend to agree with you there. However, he swore an oath of commitment to basically do as he was told. He held up his hand & repeated the words. He continued to take his money & benefits while this war was going on & didn't make a fuss until he was ordered to go.

    IMO, based on that, this guy is a POS with no integrity. If he was so ethically opposed to the war, why didn't he try to be discharged from the military before he received orders?

    I quit working at a particular agency due to their unethical billing practices, even though I wasn't ordered to do it myself. I didn't want to be associated with fraud & corruption by accepting their paychecks. That's small potatoes compared to the doings in Iraq.
    "I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

    Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.

  6. #96
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    The problem is, these days you can't just hand in your stripes and say "i quit". For all we know, he's taken the only road he could.

    Actually, it should be the only LEGAL road. He could have skipped the country, but he didn't.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #97
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Well, he could have pretended to go crazy. I saw several idiots doing that & it worked. But that was 20 years ago, & crazy might be a much-sought after trait right now.
    "I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

    Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.

  8. #98
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    I wouldn't go that far, but the standards used now are a hell of a lot lower.. they're pretty desperate. They're signing up autistic and mentally incompetent people, convicts, you name it..
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  9. #99
    Hit By Ban Bus! DirtyPool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    No, someone else going in his place is a RESULT of him refusing to go and fighting the system. Someone else would have to go if he broke his leg, fell down a flight of stairs or otherwise was rendered incapable. Would that be cowardice as well?

    Well, until you can point to any instance of me having sympathy for ANY identified enemy, you can go fuck yourself for even having the temerity to suggest such a thing.
    There's no doubt in my mind that this coward is going to have so much fun in the brig. yay!

    Oh and I can go fuck myself for calling you out? Until you figure out which side you're on (the islamo-facists or the civilized world) all the thinking in the world isn't going to get you anywhere. You like to agitate is all.

  10. #100
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Oh and I can go fuck myself for calling you out? Until you figure out which side you're on (the islamo-facists or the civilized world) all the thinking in the world isn't going to get you anywhere. You like to agitate is all.
    Called me out? I called YOUR ass out, and yet again you're too chickenshit or incompetent to respond. I'll ask you again:

    Point to where I showed sympathy for any identified enemy. Cut and paste.

    Is this going to be like your idiotic "psychological warfare" stunt, where I told you to explain how I was engaging in such activities, and you refused?

    Grow some cojones, find your ovaries, or whatever it is you do to to seem respectable and BACK UP YOUR STATEMENTS.

    I know you won't be able to, but I *love* making people who toss out stupid propaganda slurs look as idiotic as possible.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  11. #101
    Hit By Ban Bus! DirtyPool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    Called me out? I called YOUR ass out, and yet again you're too chickenshit or incompetent to respond. I'll ask you again:

    Point to where I showed sympathy for any identified enemy. Cut and paste.

    Is this going to be like your idiotic "psychological warfare" stunt, where I told you to explain how I was engaging in such activities, and you refused?

    Grow some cojones, find your ovaries, or whatever it is you do to to seem respectable and BACK UP YOUR STATEMENTS.

    I know you won't be able to, but I *love* making people who toss out stupid propaganda slurs look as idiotic as possible.
    cut and paste? Why are you always trying to bust my castanetts? You're too busy trying to break everything down to people but i have yet to see what you stand for except being an apologist / agitator.

  12. #102
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    ^^ So you refuse?

    I thought so.

    You accuse me of being an agitator, and yet when confronted by someone to provide support your ridiculous statements, you turn tail and run.

    You call me some sort of 'terrorist sympathiser', with nothing to back it up, but I call you a COWARD and I can prove it.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  13. #103
    Hit By Ban Bus! DirtyPool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    You know something, if you remove the rod just a 1/4 inch you might lighten up a little. I did not say terrorist sympathiser so nice try on that one. You do walk a fine line, I think, on some of your threads but I accept that I may be just a tad more conservative then most here. Seems like your wrong on this issue though. Some things are black and white and don't need a philisophical cleansing.

  14. #104
    Gold Member Delphinium's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    Called me out? I called YOUR ass out, and yet again you're too chickenshit or incompetent to respond. I'll ask you again:

    Point to where I showed sympathy for any identified enemy. Cut and paste.

    Is this going to be like your idiotic "psychological warfare" stunt, where I told you to explain how I was engaging in such activities, and you refused?

    Grow some cojones, find your ovaries, or whatever it is you do to to seem respectable and BACK UP YOUR STATEMENTS.

    I know you won't be able to, but I *love* making people who toss out stupid propaganda slurs look as idiotic as possible.

    hmmmm. well Grimm it is pretty obvious that you are always and without fail going to side with anyone or anything that is anti-American. You chime in on issues such as this one in which you really don't have any reason, seeing that you are not an American citizen. So your input here doesn't carry much weight other than the fact you do like to agitate and be as offensive as possible to and toward Americans who actually appreciate living in a free country.

  15. #105
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Sorry to stir the shit, but I think this war is anti-American. I think it's based on lies & excuses, and it has magnified hatred for Americans exponentially. It makes me afraid for the safety of my children.
    "I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

    Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.

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