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Thread: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

  1. #46
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    The bottom line for me is this: when you sign up with the military and take that oath, you are agreeing to follow orders and that includes going to war. If you don't think you would be up for that you should not sign up. I know a lot of people sign up during peace time for tuition assistance and other benefits, and they are usually not thinking about (I don't suppose) what could come around the corner at any minute. However, the oath doesn't say anything about "as long as you agree with the orders" or " as long as you like your Commander in Chief". The military practically owns you for the next 4 yrs at least. It's called a committment, and he made it, so by breaking that he does show a lack of integrity. Regardless of my dislike of this war, that makes him a bonafide pussy.

  2. #47
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Well if that was the case, there would be no such thing as a "Conscientious objector" status for enlisted personnell.

    It takes just as much bravery to stand up against a behemoth like the US military for your ethics.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  3. #48
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Mushy
    Well, you can't always believe everything journalists say. They're always in competition for "the scoop."
    There's competition for a scoop, and then there's doing something that will get your ass sued pronto.

  4. #49
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Well, repeating propaganda bits that are outright falsifications isn't exactly in the journo code, howcome nobody has taken the major news conglomerates or the reporters to court for being mouthpieces?
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  5. #50
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Grimm, I usually agree with your posts, but the "conscientous objector" stuff is a cop out, imo. It's easier to try to pretend like you are taking some moral high ground than to admit that you've taken everything the military has to offer and now you're too chickenshit to step up when you get called to war. Let's not forget that the primary purpose of a military is to kill people. Any way you slice it, everyone who signs up knows that war is a possibility and that they may not like the circumstances, and they sign up anyway. I'm pretty certain there are many soldiers fighting who disagree with the war but they are still there doing what they pledged to do. This guy backing out will not change one damned thing. I'll add to my original post that not only would I make him pay back all he's been paid (in money and training), he would do a stint in jail.

  6. #51
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    I'd go to jail than fight in a war that was based on lies for corporate greed. I'd be able to sleep at night at least.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #52
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    Well, repeating propaganda bits that are outright falsifications isn't exactly in the journo code, howcome nobody has taken the major news conglomerates or the reporters to court for being mouthpieces?
    I agree that they were/are sycophantic pussies apparently incapable of critical thought, but what exactly would the charges be? Being a stupid ass kisser isn't illegal, unfortunately.

  8. #53
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Publishing factually incorrect articles would be
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  9. #54
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Not if they didn't know they were factually incorrect. The burden of proof would be on the prosecutor, and trust me, no one would touch it with a 10-foot pole.

    The way it works is that publishing a factually incorrect article that comes from a supposedly reliable source like the government -- haha -- does not have any liability for the journalists or media outlet unless said articles defame or libel someone.

  10. #55
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Not if they didn't know they were factually incorrect.
    Yeah, but there again you have the failure of no investigative journalism on a particular topic, and simply parroting what an admin says.

    There ought to be a punitive system set up for bullcrap like that.

    Gossip mags notwithstanding
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  11. #56
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    A failure isn't a crime although in this case, it probably should be!

  12. #57
    A*O
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet
    Grimm, I usually agree with your posts, but the "conscientous objector" stuff is a cop out, imo. It's easier to try to pretend like you are taking some moral high ground than to admit that you've taken everything the military has to offer and now you're too chickenshit to step up when you get called to war. Let's not forget that the primary purpose of a military is to kill people. Any way you slice it, everyone who signs up knows that war is a possibility and that they may not like the circumstances, and they sign up anyway. I'm pretty certain there are many soldiers fighting who disagree with the war but they are still there doing what they pledged to do. This guy backing out will not change one damned thing. I'll add to my original post that not only would I make him pay back all he's been paid (in money and training), he would do a stint in jail.
    You nailed it crumpet.

    And until they reintroduce the Draft (see recent US legislation) for the time being people sign up voluntarily, of their own free will and fully aware of the potential risks involved of being killed or injured themselves. Take note Cindy Sheehan (sp?).
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  13. #58
    Elite Member MrsMarsters's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    the purpose of war, and military is NOT TO KILL people, but to protect your country. Just sounds a little harsh. Actually when you think about it those are too very different things.
    Life will break you. Nobody can protect you from that, and living alone won't either, for solitude will also break you with its yearning. You have to love. You have to feel. Horrible isn't it? It makes you so vulnerable.

  14. #59
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by A*O
    You nailed it crumpet.

    And until they reintroduce the Draft (see recent US legislation) for the time being people sign up voluntarily, of their own free will and fully aware of the potential risks involved of being killed or injured themselves. Take note Cindy Sheehan (sp?).
    Except that's not why he's refusing to go, did anybody actually REAd the article?
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  15. #60
    A*O
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    No of course we didn't!!! That's not the way we do things around here boy.
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