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Thread: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

  1. #181
    Hit By Ban Bus! DirtyPool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    well ding ding for him. I hope he gets brig time and a dishonarable discharge.

  2. #182
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    I hope he gets a medal for standing up for what's right.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  3. #183
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    You've managed to figure out the bold feature, gold star!
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  4. #184
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    I hope he gets a medal for standing up for what's right.
    Would it make a difference if you disagreed with his stance? In other words, should he still get a medal for refusing duty, if you thought his reasoning was faulty?
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  5. #185
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    I can disagree with someone's position, and still think they deserve recognition for standing up for it.

    A war of choice, for corporate greed, based on lies... pretty hard to be unambiguous about your stance on it.
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  6. #186
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Hmm. To me, that encourages dissent in the military. It's distracting, time consuming, and erodes discipline and effectiveness.

    That said, I do remember from basic training that there is one situation in which a soldier may refuse to obey orders, and that is when the orders are illegal. This information is in every trainee's little handbook, kept in their cargo pockets to read whenever they have the chance.

    This brings me back to a question I posed a few pages back. Is this war actually illegal? I have no idea. I find it immoral & unjustifiable, but is it technically illegal?
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  7. #187
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Is this war actually illegal? I have no idea. I find it immoral & unjustifiable, but is it technically illegal?
    Why do you think the US circumvented the UN? Under international law, it's illegal. It was an invasion of a sovereign nation that had not engaged in any hostilities.

    In lay terms, conquest.

    Sure, the US government passed a resolution authorizing itself to wage war but that hardly makes it internationally legitimate.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  8. #188
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    Why do you think the US circumvented the UN?
    Hell, I don't know. That's why I'm asking. I don't know that the fact that they circumvented the UN is, in itself, proof that the war is illegal, but I'm open to all the facts. Even facts, though, are subject to interpretation.

    I also don't know if a soldier is entitled to refuse orders based on international law, or if s/he is restricted to US law, or if there is even a difference.
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  9. #189
    Gold Member EvilMonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Political opinion aside.

    This man is an officer.

    He should be both the representative of his men and their leader.

    He should lead by example.

    If he has done this because his men feel this way that is one thing.

    If he has put his person ahead of his men he he has failed them. If so he has failed as an officer and should resign his commission.

    Further:

    As the current situation is UN sanctioned. He is free to object to the original coalition action. His argument about serving there now is null and void though as was the case recently with a british RAF officer.

    He has failed as an Officer IMO. He should face his charges either way but he should also resign immediately.
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  10. #190
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    The current situation isn't UN sanctioned, the 'coalition of the willing' is nothing more than a few lapdog nations and other fragments from various ex-soviet satellite nations financially bullied or cajoled into participating to give the entire abysmal enterprise some fake sheen of legitimacy.

    None of this, save maybe a couple reconstruction projects, is under UN auspices. Hello, Kofi Annan stated SPECIFICALLY that it was an illegal war according to international law.
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  11. #191
    Hit By Ban Bus! DirtyPool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    The UN does not rule over the United States....I think they should pack their bags and get the hell off of american property.

    Coffee Cup Annan should worry about his own oil for food scandal.

  12. #192
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    No, the US sees fit that, like a spoiled child, it will do what it wants when it wants and have a tantrum when it can't get its way.

    It would be nice for the UN to form its own army as a nice powerful counterpoint to the US, so they can give the US a timeout or send it to its room.
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  13. #193
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    ^not while their tree-house is on our playground.

  14. #194
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    Well, big loss that would be. They should just move it to the Hague where the international criminal court is already located.

    Then they should stuff Cheney, Rumsfeld and Dubya on the stand and try them for war crimes.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  15. #195
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    Default Re: Army lieutenant refuses to go to Iraq

    ^Did you forget Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice? I really hate the fact that these people (bush,dick,conde,collin,rumsfeld) failed so miserably and lied to the American people and yet they will get to go off into the sunset at the end of the day while my brothers and sisters get maimed and killed in a place that we have no connection to other than economics.

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