Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 82

Thread: Arizona governor signs immigration enforcement bill

  1. #61
    Elite Member january's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    7,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KrisNine View Post
    I live with someone who had to go through the entire process to become a citizen and I don't see why it's so difficult for others to do the same. Granted, he came here legally so I guess that makes some difference. Believe me, a 30 something, middle eastern man becoming a US citizen after 9/11 isn't a walk in the park.
    Same! Well, my husband only has legal residency status, he'll be applying for citizenship soon. It definitely wasn't a walk in the park like you said, but if they can do it, anyone surely can. I think that's why I get a bit worked up about illegal immigration, there is just no excuse to not do things the correct (legal) way. I'm tired of the lame excuses. And yes, there will always be xenophobia which fuels some peoples' hate towards immigration of any kind. But I think that most people, like myself, aren't against immigration, just the illegality of it. I enjoy living in a very multi-cultural, diverse city, I think it's fantastic. But my husband and I were talking about this the other day - he was never coddled in any way. He's never had a "press 1 for arabic" listing, he's never had arabic writing directing him where to go in local stores, he's never had arabic speakers in stores to help him out. We were at a pharmacy the other day close to the hospital and about 1/2 of the people there spoke zero english. They kept having to call in Spanish translators. There was a woman there who held up the whole line because she couldn't answer the question of "how much does your baby weigh" in english. Then she was talking to the translator about how she was here 5 years ago, and there was another woman, etc. - the moral of this story is that she had been here FOR AT LEAST 5 YEARS and she didn't even know basic English! How is that possible! I learned fundamental arabic in one year when I lived overseas. I don't think there is any incentive for some of these people to assimilate because there will always be a handout or someone there to take care of them, so they don't even have to try. Where I live there is a huge Indian/Arab/Asian population and they ALL speak English very well, even as new immigrants. There is just a different standard here for certain minority groups. It's pretty depressing, actually. My friend (who is Mexican) lived in a Texas border town her whole life, now she's an aerospace engineer, incredibly brilliant. Her mom doesn't speak ANY english despite being here for over 28 years. She gets mad at my friend when her and her boyfriend speak English and don't include her. My friend blew up at her and told her, "mom, stop being fucking lazy and you'll know what the fuck is going on, okay!" She was tired of having to retell every story, every detail, from English to Spanish. She told me, there is absolutely zero excuse for her not to speak English, she's just lazy and doesn't want to learn. They even had to rework their whole wedding plans to have it in their hometown because their family didn't want to travel because they speak no English. So those are the people that I get frustrated with, not the people that have just arrived here and are struggling. I totally sympathize with them. But if you have been here for years and you still can't grasp simple fundamental questions in English, you must have burrowed into a hole and absolutely refused to assimilate. That gets on my last nerve.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  2. #62
    Elite Member Penny Lane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Over the hills and far away
    Posts
    21,646

    Default

    I agree that immigrants are expected to assimilate to a certain degree after they've been here for a while. It's expected and it's not appropriate to think that you deserve an accommodation just because you're a certain ethnicity. However... is someone going to ask me for my papers just because I'm speaking Spanish in public? Is a cop going to detain me because I order tacos at lunch? Will I look suspicious if I'm dressed a certain way? There is absolutely NO guidance in regards to how this bill will be implemented.. and that much gray area will just lead to a lot of abuse of power and unfounded accusations. Illegal immigration is a legitimate and important issue for reform but seriously.. legalizing racial profiling and essentially turning Arizona into a police state where anyone who "looks" illegal is a potential target is just a disaster waiting to happen.

  3. #63
    Elite Member january's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    7,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Penny Lane View Post
    I agree that immigrants are expected to assimilate to a certain degree after they've been here for a while. It's expected and it's not appropriate to think that you deserve an accommodation just because you're a certain ethnicity. However... is someone going to ask me for my papers just because I'm speaking Spanish in public? Is a cop going to detain me because I order tacos at lunch? Will I look suspicious if I'm dressed a certain way? There is absolutely NO guidance in regards to how this bill will be implemented.. and that much gray area will just lead to a lot of abuse of power and unfounded accusations. Illegal immigration is a legitimate and important issue for reform but seriously.. legalizing racial profiling and essentially turning Arizona into a police state where anyone who "looks" illegal is a potential target is just a disaster waiting to happen.
    I agree. I've read into this bill more and what I found was quite scary. The problem is that illegal immigration has blossomed into such an all-encompassing problem and is so widespread at this point that it's almost impossible to tackle. I proposed a solution upthread but even then, if we deport illegal immigrants who are criminals, they come right back. We really need to secure our borders before we take a better look. If we can cut off illegal immigration and then focus on the illegal immigrants already here, we can make some sort of leeway. I don't mind proposing legality for them if they can, once again, pass criminal checks and get vaccinations. I know that some people think this is granting a pass for illegal behavior, and it is. But I'm not sure what else we can do at this point to actually stop the problem and turn it into something beneficial.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  4. #64
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    fellow traveller
    Posts
    59,034

    Default

    unless the US can find a way to separate its land mass from mexico, there will always be people crossing over. it's unrealistic to think the flow will stop until conditions in mexico and further south improve.
    when the EU opened its borders with eastern europe, people thought there would be an invasion of polish, czech, slovakian, etc. people coming into the richer countries of western europe. the 'dreaded' invasion of workers happy to be paid much less than western europeans never happened. why? because before the opening of the borders, western europe spent over a decade massively investing in those countries and building up their economies so that people would have an incentive to stay home. people don't want to move to a different country and leave their families and loved ones behind. they do it because it's the only way to improve their conditions.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  5. #65
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,250

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Penny Lane View Post
    I agree that immigrants are expected to assimilate to a certain degree after they've been here for a while. It's expected and it's not appropriate to think that you deserve an accommodation just because you're a certain ethnicity. However... is someone going to ask me for my papers just because I'm speaking Spanish in public? Is a cop going to detain me because I order tacos at lunch? Will I look suspicious if I'm dressed a certain way? There is absolutely NO guidance in regards to how this bill will be implemented.. and that much gray area will just lead to a lot of abuse of power and unfounded accusations. Illegal immigration is a legitimate and important issue for reform but seriously.. legalizing racial profiling and essentially turning Arizona into a police state where anyone who "looks" illegal is a potential target is just a disaster waiting to happen.
    This.

    Even if the law solved AZ's illegal immigration problem (which it wouldn't), it's still a very bad law because it promotes discrimination against people based on their skin color, or what they wear, or how they speak. Many of those who will be caught up in this dragnet will be legal - some will be citizens.

    What if Bill Richardson came over from New Mexico? An idiot cop could arrest him.
    Tea baggers want to fight the Man because the Man doesn't look like them.

  6. #66
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Cuntopia
    Posts
    42,983

    Default

    I saw a local news poll on the news this morning showing that 71% do NOT think this bill goes too far. I was a bit surprised.
    Kill him.
    Kill her.
    Kill It.
    Kill everything... that IS the solution!
    П(•_•)П
    twitchy molests my signature!

  7. #67
    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    5,382

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1973 View Post
    I saw a local news poll on the news this morning showing that 71% do NOT think this bill goes too far. I was a bit surprised.
    And what percent actually knew what the bill really enacted?

  8. #68
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,884

    Default

    Probably zero point nought. No one reads teh bill, they just suck up the propoganda.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  9. #69
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Cuntopia
    Posts
    42,983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lurkur View Post
    And what percent actually knew what the bill really enacted?
    You know, the part that always cracks me up are the 3% who "don't know"... it's like you feel so strongly about this you're gonna take this poll and answer "I don't know"...
    Kill him.
    Kill her.
    Kill It.
    Kill everything... that IS the solution!
    П(•_•)П
    twitchy molests my signature!

  10. #70
    Elite Member Moongirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Cal-i-for-nigh-ay!
    Posts
    9,211

    Default

    Latino businesses feel pinch of new immigration law
    By Emmanuella Grinberg, CNN
    April 28, 2010 11:19 a.m. EDT

    STORY HIGHLIGHTS
    -Arizona law scaring customers away, business owners say
    -"They're afraid of being out on the streets," taqueria owner says
    -Bodega owner wonders how he'll pay his workers, who are here legally
    -Meat distributor says both legal and illegal Hispanics are considering leaving Arizona

    Phoenix, Arizona (CNN) -- Hector Manrique takes a look around his taqueria and sighs. It's 3:30 in the afternoon, and usually around this time at least five or six tables are occupied by day laborers fresh off work, or schoolchildren and families in search of a torta or taco after school.

    But today, Taqueria Guadalajara's plastic lawn chairs and tables are empty, and so is the tip jar on the counter. Street traffic in this predominantly Hispanic neighborhood of Phoenix, Arizona, is also lighter than usual, says Manrique, who opened the casual Mexican eatery in 2003.

    Not even a week has passed since Gov. Jan Brewer signed into law tough measures targeting illegal immigrants, but Manrique and others who own businesses that cater primarily to Phoenix's large Hispanic community say they are already feeling the effects.

    "I think they're afraid of being out on the streets knowing they're going to get pulled over by the sheriff," says Manrique, a Mexican-born U.S. citizen who has lived in Phoenix since the 1990s. "A lot of people told me they're afraid to go out even though the law's not fully passed."

    The governor's signing of the bill has ignited a firestorm of debate in Arizona, with activists on both sides of the issue clamoring to keep the issue alive. If the new law withstands the numerous legal challenges being threatened, it could take effect as soon as August.

    Opinion: Law brings big risks for Arizona

    Supporters say the law will temper the negative effects of immigration, such as crime and the misuse of taxpayer dollars to fund health care and education needs of illegal immigrants.

    Opponents fear that the "reasonable suspicion" standard applied to enforcing the bill will create a climate that fosters fear and condones racial profiling, drawing comparisons to fascism and apartheid.

    On Monday, Brewer deflected concerns that the state's new immigration law will hurt economic development, saying many businesses have long wanted tougher action.

    Manrique says customers started to become scarce a few weeks ago, when news surfaced that the bill was likely to pass. Then came Friday, the day Brewer signed the legislation.

    "The streets just went empty. Usually on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, we're packed. But this weekend was empty like I'd never seen it before," Manrique said.

    Immigrant soldier: 'Freedoms we enjoy are for everyone'

    Across town, Jose Rivas' bodega offers customers a money wiring teller, a butcher counter and a wide variety of Mexican brands of cookies, beverages and household goods. He said his business also is taking a hit, and that the effects could be long-term.

    "Ours is a culture that consumes a lot -- food, drinks, clothes, you name it," said Rivas, periodically stopping to greet or wave at a customer. "If no one's out shopping, how can I afford to employ my workers? They're all here legally. What happens to them?"

    Ernesto Tercero, a first-generation Arizonan whose family is from Mexico, owns a meat distribution company that supplies dozens of stores in Phoenix. He says SB 1070 is a slap in the face to the Hispanic community.

    "These people came here because they were told that there were jobs. They were brought here under promises of work, the American dream, and for many years we kept the dream alive," he said.

    GOP lawmakers work to halt immigration agenda

    Tercero, a tall, outspoken man whose gregarious manner underscores his deep connection to the community, noted that Hispanics both legal and illegal are considering leaving Arizona to avoid confrontations with law enforcement.

    "They got people who've been here 20 years, they got kids, people who came when their kids were 3, 4 years old. Now they're 20 years old. They can't go back to Mexico. They've never even been to Mexico."

    Growing up in Phoenix, Tercero recalls a time when Spanish was discouraged from being spoken in schools and Hispanics were limited in the jobs they could pursue and the places they could live.

    Since then, self-made businessmen like Tercero, Rivas and Manrique have become models of success in Phoenix's small business community, said Todd Landfried, a spokesman for Arizona Employers for Immigration Reform.

    "This law punishes local business owners who make a living catering to a certain market," Landfried said. "They've done everything expected of them. So why are they the ones getting punished?"

    Latino businesses feel pinch of new immigration law - CNN.com

  11. #71
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    you already know.
    Posts
    44,439

    Default

    nazi, germany in 2010 America for god's sake. nice

  12. #72
    Elite Member Moongirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Cal-i-for-nigh-ay!
    Posts
    9,211

    Default Pima County, AZ sheriff calls new law stupid, says he won't enforce it

    Pima County Sheriff Calls Arizona Law "Stupid," Will Not Enforce It (VIDEO)
    Columnist George Will is of the opinion that Arizona's police officers are capable of handling the task that the state's draconian new anti-immigration law drops into their laps. That is to say, they must do a better job at enforcing illegal immigration statutes, without racial profiling, and do so effectively enough to not get sued. Will said:

    Probably 30 percent of Arizona's residents are Hispanic. Arizona police officers, like officers everywhere, have enough to do without being required to seek arrests by violating settled law with random stops of people who speak Spanish. In the practice of the complex and demanding craft of policing, good officers -- the vast majority -- routinely make nuanced judgments about when there is probable cause for acting on reasonable suspicions of illegality.
    On the other hand, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, who I am assuming is something of a master of the "complex and demanding craft of policing" seeing as how he's been a policeman for over five decades, begs to differ. Per Amanda Terkel, Dupnik called the law "racist" and "disgusting" and "stupid" and, in his "nuanced judgment" could not be enforced without mandatory racial profiling. Dupnik's reckoning of the legal issue is that he's just as likely to be sued for racial profiling as he is for not doing enough racial profiling, so he's standing pat, and will not enforce the new law.

    [WATCH]

    Video - KGUN 9 On Your Side, Tucson News, Weather & Sports

    Asked by local news station KGUN9 what he thought the solution to the law was, Dupnik replied, "The November election."

  13. #73
    Elite Member Penny Lane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Over the hills and far away
    Posts
    21,646

    Default

    As stated earlier.. immigration is a legitimate issue for reform.. but this is really depressing.

    Iowa candidate: Implant microchips into immigrants in country illegally

    An Iowa Republican congressional candidate says he supports inserting microchips into illegal immigrants to track their movements, noting that's how he keeps track of his dog.

    Speaking at a forum Monday in Toledo, 3rd District Republican candidate Pat Bertroche said police should catch illegal immigrants and document their whereabouts.

    The Cedar Rapids Gazette reported that he added, "I can microchip my dog so I can find it. Why can't I microchip an illegal?"

    Bertroche — one of seven Republicans seeking the nomination to run against Democrat Leonard Boswell — said in a statement Tuesday that his comment was social commentary on how inane the immigration issue has become.

    He said using microchips is as radical an idea as suggestions to build a fence across the nation's border with Mexico to stop the flow of illegal immigrants.
    Iowa candidate: Implant microchips into immigrants in country illegally | desmoinesregister.com | The Des Moines Register

    So.. we're now comparing them to dogs. Lovely. I usually don't get that upset about things like this because I'm pretty cynical, but my grandfather (a native-born citizen of legal immigrants) had to endure so many degrading and dehumanizing things in his youth... things involving being whipped on the school bus in full view of the bus driver and having things.. shoved.. into body cavities. It's heartbreaking and he's always said the only upside to all of it was that his "mijitos and mijitas" didn't have to endure any of this type of shit in their generations. I'm not saying we're at the point where Hispanic-looking citizens (or even illegal aliens) will have to endure this type of abuse and discrimination.. but at the rate we're going, it's getting there. I'm really upset about all this.. and yeah I agree it might be because it hits so close to home.. but at the end of the day no one deserves to be treated like an animal. This is a total violation of social justice I don't care what your personal political ideology might be.

  14. #74
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,250

    Default

    On the other hand, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, who I am assuming is something of a master of the "complex and demanding craft of policing" seeing as how he's been a policeman for over five decades, begs to differ. Per Amanda Terkel, Dupnik called the law "racist" and "disgusting" and "stupid" and, in his "nuanced judgment" could not be enforced without mandatory racial profiling. Dupnik's reckoning of the legal issue is that he's just as likely to be sued for racial profiling as he is for not doing enough racial profiling, so he's standing pat, and will not enforce the new law.
    Good for him, but I hope he's got money saved and other options cause I don't think he'll have his job for long.
    Tea baggers want to fight the Man because the Man doesn't look like them.

  15. #75
    Elite Member Sundance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    3,463

    Default

    An Iowa Republican congressional candidate says he supports inserting microchips into illegal immigrants to track their movements, noting that's how he keeps track of his dog.

    Speaking at a forum Monday in Toledo, 3rd District Republican candidate Pat Bertroche said police should catch illegal immigrants and document their whereabouts.

    The Cedar Rapids Gazette reported that he added, "I can microchip my dog so I can find it. Why can't I microchip an illegal?"
    Holy hell.
    “The thing that attracts people to “The Sopranos” is the family element. It shows that America still has a longing for that traditional upbringing.” Christine O'Donnell

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Arizona House approves concealed weapons bill
    By celeb_2006 in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: April 16th, 2010, 07:07 PM
  2. Replies: 9
    Last Post: June 4th, 2009, 01:28 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: October 1st, 2008, 09:43 PM
  4. The battle lines are drawn:South Dakota gov signs anti-abortion bill.
    By buttmunch in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: March 7th, 2006, 11:29 AM
  5. Bush signs anti-torture bill with the provision that he will ignore it.
    By Grimmlok in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: January 6th, 2006, 12:09 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •