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Thread: Another crazy FDR 'right'

  1. #31
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    Grimm's got it.
    http://dorkdejour.blogspot.com Just Pimpin my Podcast!!

  2. #32
    Elite Member twitchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weblurker View Post
    Grimmlok is an example of that kind of liberal. His signature mocks evangelicals, yet is silent about radical Muslims who execute and persecute gay people and other minority groups in Islamic countries. How is that possible?
    Easy. Limited signature space.

    Incidentally, your signature also fails to condemn radical Muslims. I will therefore conclude that you support minority persecution since you fail to condemn it.

    Too subtle?


    Quote Originally Posted by weblurker View Post
    Maybe I don't have to talk to Grimmlok about this. Maybe you can examine your own inner thoughts and explain to me how people who call themselves liberals could possibly, at one and the same time, oppose conservatives yet support (or at least fail to oppose) radical Muslims.
    In a black and white world this argument might hold up. Realistically, though, the enemy of my enemy is my friend brand of reasoning doesn't necessarily work in the real world. Look where it got Ukraine in WW2. The Russians did horrible things, the Germans came to fight the Russians, then "Yay, liberators!" was quickly followed by "Oh crap, we're out of the frying pan and into the fire!". (Very rough translation, sorry.) Just because conservatives oppose radical Muslims doesn't mean that everything about their policies is good. I'd like to see some sort of reference for your assertion that liberals support radical Muslims. Just had to Godwin this!


    Quote Originally Posted by weblurker View Post
    Now, why would I try to hide the fact that I'm a true hardcore liberal, if that is, in fact, what I am? Because there is something faux liberals hate even more than neocons or conservatives. It's an unabashed, unapologetic true liberal. Faux liberals hate to be exposed as hypocrites and in the presence of a true believer, they won't just argue, they'll resort to physical violence.

    Do you oppose injustice in this world? What did you do when innocent people were murdered in the USSR, or China, or Rwanda, or Iraq? What did you do when a Muslim women is murdered by her relatives in an honour killing? If you're a faux liberal, you know the anwer. It was nothing. For that, IMO, you should be ashamed.
    Please enlighten me and tell me where YOU were and what YOU did before condemning others. How did YOU try to stop violence in USSR, China, etc. etc?

    Also, your accusation of physical violence in the face of argument intrigues me. Again please provide some sort of source for this claim. I'd just love to hear it.

    "The howling backwoods that is IMDB is where film criticism goes to die (and then have its corpse gang-raped, called a racist, and accused of supporting Al-Qaeda)" ----Sean O'Neal, The Onion AV Club

  3. #33
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    oh snap
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  4. #34
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    I'm really tired of conservatives using the label 'liberal' as an insult to anyone who doesn't blindly follow any of their conformist and traditionalist line of thought. Likewise, I am very fed up with 'neocon' being overused and loosely thrown at anyone who dares express disagreement with far left wing policies. As a libertarian I've been called both by both and you can imagine how that looks and feels from my perspective. Absolutism sucks in any capacity.

  5. #35
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    I totally agree, Crumpet, as a woman, I 'd be conservative in a lot of my values. Not necessarrilly because I'm ready to start a family now, but it is where my "comfort zone" lays.

    I can see that US needs to adjust policies, it just seems difficult for us to define ourselves in any other way, as a nation. Those labels are used, for whatever reason, to express certain frustration with current standings, though I am sure that we all possess certain "liberal" traits and also certain "conservative" traits though, too.

  6. #36
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    *enjoys being in a country where Liberal is a celebrated word*
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #37
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    ^I think that I would like it more, also, if we had set some better legislation. If we had, that would now be in-tact. We don't, and it was never initially estabilished or we wouldn't have these such problems, right now. I think that there is more to this though than placing labels. I really feel though that a lot of the reasoning would be also our "liberal" policies. Liberal in that we accept all types of races here(going strictly on color) who accept the traditional family model(between a man and a woman). Our liberals are all for that here, and allowing the diversity while allowing the benefits that come from said arrangement. That's what a lot of them promote. So, liberal must mean something entirely different, then, in the US?

  8. #38
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Well in Canada Liberal tends to mean:

    1) inclusive of all races, creeds, colors
    2) inclusive of sexual orientations
    3) accepting of new ideas and paradigms, such as non-traditional families
    4) Socially conscious
    5) accepting of religion, but vehement believers of church/state separation
    6) concerned about the environment
    7) always exploring art, new ways to do things, creativity

    etc etc..

    By contrast, conservative up here means

    1) Pro business, often to the detriment of its victims
    2) Environmentally unconcerned
    3) Socially rigid, anything outside the 'comfort zone' is instantly bad
    4) Less separation between church/state
    5) uncreative, arts are not bothered with
    6) less social engineering, more fending for yourself as a citizen

    basically dull, drab and all about money money money.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  9. #39
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    Grimm, I can totally see how it bothers you that said US ways have sorta spilt over into your region. I'm sure that the issues lay into deciding on labor and who gets what work.

    I know this because I have been searching for work myself lately, and it is hard on me some days. Much everything, it seems, for employment, is only with "corporate". And it sound like where you've had trouble yourself, is more with labor issues from these newer structures. Well, why do you think these structures exist, then?
    Last edited by JamieElizabeth; January 5th, 2007 at 02:23 PM.

  10. #40
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    No, it's really more the social side that bothers me.. all those holy-rollers and gun-nuts from Alberta trying to ape US style Republicans for some reason.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  11. #41
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    lol, oh my... that has to be hilarious.
    Ummm. I wish to have something meaningful to say, but I still really think the social side that you are explaining is stemming from the social side of whatever else these people promote.

    Maybe you should at least try and look into *what* it is that also they might stand for(other than bigotry). There's got to be some meaning for it. I'm sure they are holding some structure of policy that probably serves, at least some social function, however superficial. Don't you think?

    It is something that I'd like to learn to do, and it probably helps with tolerance. Instead, of feeling on days at threat or stressed, at least understand a bit more.

  12. #42
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    It's a social structure based on fear and a comfort zone. That's what conservatism (from a social standpoint) is. Keeping things as they are. No change. Change is weird and bad. The good ol' days were better. New things and people are dangerous, even if they don't affect anybody but the people involved in them.

    It's also interesting that these people will keep sticking to a particular way of doing things, even if that way is simply not workable anymore or produces no favorable results (ie prison). They stick to it because that's just the way THEY think things ought to be, instead of the reality of what is. Instead of trying a new tactic to see if it helps the problem of crime, they just keep building bigger and bigger jails.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  13. #43
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    Canada and the UK have Liberal and Conservative parties, we do not have them here in the US. The whole conservative vs liberal fairytale in the US was created by politicians and entertainers for votes and ratings. Men and women from 50 states and who come from different races, ethnic backgrounds and cultures cannot be broken down into two neat groups. It's absurd. Most Americans, Dems and Repubs alike, are moderate.
    If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a horrible warning

  14. #44
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Well 'neocon' would be the extreme right wing of the Republicans (who are centrist-right) but the whole party is analagous to the Conservatives up here. We have the more conservative members, and the less. The only real difference is a name and scale of the ideology.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  15. #45
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    I agree with what you've said here, Grim.
    "It's a social structure based on fear and a comfort zone. That's what conservatism (from a social standpoint) is. Keeping things as they are. No change. Change is weird and bad. The good ol' days were better. New things and people are dangerous, even if they don't affect anybody but the people involved in them."

    It must be a demographic thing. So, it's probably hard to translate what I experience here vs. where you are.

    I live in a suburb of a larger city Dallas, about 50 miles. I'd say it is maybe stuck in a lot of the conservative ideals that you've explained above.

    I pay attention to *change*.

    Mainly, I notice it in the marketplace, though.

    I notice in more in the capital structure of stores and shopping.
    I don't know how "markets" work in Canada, but I can tell you that there seems to be new stores offering "less expensive" goods, and pricing competition on every corner these days.

    I'm impressed though, they keep things fairly decent and clean for the magnitude of people that walk through. I have to admit, there could definately be better quality of life(including the environment), but with this structure right now, so it is not likely.

    Not to say improvements aren't being made, just not in-depth as perhaps in Canada or even UK.

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