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Thread: Another crazy FDR 'right'

  1. #16
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    In my experience, it's the liberals who: "...always win those arguments and the conservatives who never, ever change their minds. They just get mad and stomp off. It's a pointless, fruitless, stupid, idiotic exercise in futility. It's much easier just to avoid the whole thing."

    I find it interesting that you preface liberal with "crazy" quite frequently, which makes me doubt your neutrality. You are right about one thing tho, it's not worth the effort to argue and best avoided. I've come across your kind many times -- you pretend to want to discuss issues and learn things. But you are already loading the language and looking down your nose.

    It's too bad, really. If you hadn't have done that, it might have been fun.

    People who think in polarities aren't very intersting to me -- most people have some liberal and some conservative beliefs. Very few are, to use your word, "extreme," although that is the distancing attack mode practiced by those who seek to shed more heat than light.

    And as a Canadian, most Americans' idea of liberal would be considered conservative here. So really, throwing these labels around accomplishes nothing. I believe in treating people well and fairly and taking care of the most vulnerable in society -- but those are just some of those pesky "rights" people like you seek to abolish. After all, your polarized world is made up of winners and losers when in reality, most of us are somewhere in between just trying to make it through with a modicum of dignity and compassion.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze View Post
    In my experience....

    It's much easier just to avoid the whole thing."

    I find it interesting that you preface liberal with "crazy" quite frequently, which makes me doubt your neutrality. You are right about one thing tho, it's not worth the effort to argue and best avoided. I've come across your kind many times -- you pretend to want to discuss issues and learn things. But you are already loading the language and looking down your nose.

    It's too bad, really. If you hadn't have done that, it might have been fun.
    I'm not neutral on the issue of the level of discourse between liberals and conservatives and I admit it. In my not so limited experience, a small percentage of liberals have a strong tendency to be rude. The last US election cycle showed that, GOP offices were vandalized, Democrat offices were not.

    Grimmlok is an example. I've made one post and he's already resorted to name calling, using "neocon" as if that was a meaningful statement.

    Compare the posts on The Daily Kos with any conservative blog and the difference in civility is quite stunning.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze View Post

    People who think in polarities aren't very intersting to me -- most people have some liberal and some conservative beliefs. Very few are, to use your word, "extreme," although that is the distancing attack mode practiced by those who seek to shed more heat than light.
    I agree with you, normally I stay far away from both extreme liberals and conservatives. But as I mentioned, I've had a number of questions I'd like an extreme liberal to answer, if he's willing. Hence my appearance in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze View Post

    And as a Canadian, most Americans' idea of liberal would be considered conservative here. So really, throwing these labels around accomplishes nothing. I believe in treating people well and fairly and taking care of the most vulnerable in society -- but those are just some of those pesky "rights" people like you seek to abolish. After all, your polarized world is made up of winners and losers when in reality, most of us are somewhere in between just trying to make it through with a modicum of dignity and compassion.
    Sadly, your response shows exactly what I was talking about. "People like me"? Who are you talking about? I haven't said whether or not I'm a liberal, conservative or libertarian, or whatever. And you've already tried to read into my very deliberate tabula rosa all kinds of wrong conclusions. And I really really tried. I have a feeling my participation in this thread won't last the next 12 hours. :-<

    You've concluded that I'm a conservative who believes in taking away rights and that I want to deliberately hurt the most vulnerable people in society. And you've based that on my deliberately leaving no evidence!.

    I forgot the other aspect of liberals (not that I'm saying you're a liberal), they endlessly seek validation of their ideas and endlessly seek out conservatives to harangue.

    ARGGH!!! It always goes this way. Have I insulted you? No. Then why resort to calling me a polarizing person who seeks to harm the most vulnerable in society? I am far from that kind of person, yet you've come to that conclusion all on your own.

  3. #18
    Elite Member moomies's Avatar
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    Can someon explain to me how "neocon" is considered name calling/insulting?

    If you think it's crazy, you ain't seen a thing. Just wait until we're goin down in flames.

  4. #19
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    But "crazy" liberal isn't. I would be happy to show you many, many, many conservative blogs that are not only rude, but border on defamation of character and racism. But I am sure you are already familiar with them so it would be yet another waste of my time.

    You've left lots of evidence, but perhaps you just don't see it. Words are my specialty, and so is reading between the lines. You are one of quite a few neocons -- and no harm in that, just have the guts to admit it -- who have come onto GR pretending to seek meaningful dialogue. I'm afraid you gave yourself away early. Better luck on the next forum...apparently you spend a lot of time enlightening people with your "neutrality."

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    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze View Post
    But "crazy" liberal isn't. I would be happy to show you many, many, many conservative blogs that are not only rude, but border on defamation of character and racism. But I am sure you are already familiar with them so it would be yet another waste of my time.

    You've left lots of evidence, but perhaps you just don't see it. Words are my specialty, and so is reading between the lines. You are one of quite a few neocons -- and no harm in that, just have the guts to admit it -- who have come onto GR pretending to seek meaningful dialogue. I'm afraid you gave yourself away early. Better luck on the next forum...apparently you spend a lot of time enlightening people with your "neutrality."
    The problem with reading between the lines is that you often read the lines based on your own internal leanings and, especially, "want to believe". You seem to really, really want to believe that I"m a conservative. But I'm not, as you may soon see.

    There are two possiblities of where I might stand on the issue of liberal or conservative.

    a) I am, in fact, a crazy redneck conservative.

    b) I am, in fact, a hardcore liberal, the old fashioned kind. The kind that actually believes in certain rights and freedoms and in rational dialogue and is willing to go where those beliefs take me.

    Now, (a) is of no interest to either of us. We've both seen examples of crazy liberals and crazy conservatives. Fools who can do no better than endlessly repeat the same old bromides and old slogans.

    But (b) might be of interest to both conservatives and liberals.

    For instance, if I were a hardcore liberal (not that I'm saying that I am), I would be appalled at how faux liberals ignored the genocide in Rwanda. Or how faux liberals (henceforth I'll just type liberals for "faux liberals") ignored what Hussein did in murdering hundreds of thousands of Kurds and Shiites in Iraq.

    How liberals ignored the obvious trampling of human rights and the debasement of the environment in the old Soviet Union.

    How liberals attacked and prevented less extreme liberals and conservatives from speaking their opinions, like the recent Columbia University event about illegal immigration. All while pretending to believe in freedom of speech.

    Liberals actually vandalizing GOP campaign offices and the level of discourse on liberal blogs. If I were a hardcore liberal, I'd be aghast at that kind of behaviour. Liberals acting like an unruly mob. It gives liberalism a bad name.

    How liberals fail to address the current pollution and trampling of human rights in present day China.

    But what confuses me most of all, is how liberals make excuses for radical Islam. That I don't understand at all.

    Are you in favour of gay and women's rights? Extremist Muslims aren't. Are you in favour of abortion rights? Muslims aren't. Are you against the death penalty? Muslims sure aren't.

    It seems to me that present day extremist Muslims are the very opposite of what any serious liberal could possibly believe in. Yet I see liberals, every day, making excuses for and most appallingly, failing to oppose such terrible behaviour by Muslims.

    I have never, ever, seen a demonstration by liberals (except, perhaps me) to say that what extremist Muslims believe in, is simply wrong. Not just by liberal standards, but by any standard of rational human behaviour.

    If I were a hardcore liberal and believed in liberal axioms, I can find no way to understand why liberals oppose conservatives in trying to alter Muslim behaviour that is the very antithesis of liberal ideas. Liberals will demonstrate against conservatives, but give a free pass to the much more dangerous and extreme Muslims. Why? I truly don't get it.

    Grimmlok is an example of that kind of liberal. His signature mocks evangelicals, yet is silent about radical Muslims who execute and persecute gay people and other minority groups in Islamic countries. How is that possible?

    Maybe I don't have to talk to Grimmlok about this. Maybe you can examine your own inner thoughts and explain to me how people who call themselves liberals could possibly, at one and the same time, oppose conservatives yet support (or at least fail to oppose) radical Muslims.

    Now, why would I try to hide the fact that I'm a true hardcore liberal, if that is, in fact, what I am? Because there is something faux liberals hate even more than neocons or conservatives. It's an unabashed, unapologetic true liberal. Faux liberals hate to be exposed as hypocrites and in the presence of a true believer, they won't just argue, they'll resort to physical violence.

    Do you oppose injustice in this world? What did you do when innocent people were murdered in the USSR, or China, or Rwanda, or Iraq? What did you do when a Muslim women is murdered by her relatives in an honour killing? If you're a faux liberal, you know the anwer. It was nothing. For that, IMO, you should be ashamed.

  6. #21
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Well, Grimmlok has had PLENTY negative to say about extreme Muslims so you are doing exactly what you accuse others of. Most liberals do not support extreme Muslims/terrorists, yet this is the kind of polarized thinking neocons specialize in to cast aspersions on anyone who dares question their version of the way things should be. Sigh. As I said before, it's all about shedding more heat than light.

    I really am done with this. I suggest you familiarize yourself with some of the posters here before you start telling us what we believe. You might be surprised.
    Last edited by pacific breeze; January 3rd, 2007 at 12:52 PM.

  7. #22
    Elite Member moomies's Avatar
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    I think Grimm posted this thread to offend people and cause a fight...and that's my accurate observation. Oops, it wasn't even his thread, my bad. But it's Grimm's fault anyways.

    If you think it's crazy, you ain't seen a thing. Just wait until we're goin down in flames.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze View Post
    Well, Grimmlok has had PLENTY negative to say about extreme Muslims so you are doing exactly what you accuse others of. Most liberals do not support extreme Muslims/terrorists, yet this is the kind of polarized thinking neocons specialize in to cast aspersions anyone who dares question their version of the way things should be. Sigh. As I said before, it's all about shedding more heat than light.

    I really am done with this. I suggest you familiarize yourself with some of the posters here before you start telling us what we believe. You might be surprised.
    Well, I have yet to see any concrete evidence of what you claim. I haven't seen any public denunciations of extreme Muslims by any liberals anywhere, except by me. What I do see all the time are liberals who fight conservatives, or anyone else who realizes that extremist Muslims are a hazard, both to Muslims themselves and to the world at large.

    Anyway, as you can see, I'm not anywhere near being a neocon, or conservative. I am, however, perhaps a liberal who isn't afraid to state that my beliefs are superior to faux liberals, crazy conservatives and most especially, extremist Muslims.

    Can you point me to the relevant threads here on GR or on any liberal blog, where liberals, faux or otherwise, have denounced extremist Muslims? I've been looking for a long time.

    But you haven't answered my most important question. Did you do anything about the atrocities in my abridged list of terrible, non liberals events in this world? I did. What did you do?

    And if you didn't do anything, how does that affect your own belief system that you're a liberal?

    Because, IMO, you can't have done nothing and still consider yourself a liberal. You're something else, but what, I don't know.

    And BTW, I'm not telling you what you believe. I'm asking you. Are you a true liberal or not?
    Last edited by weblurker; January 3rd, 2007 at 04:04 AM.

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    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weblurker View Post
    Well, I have yet to see any concrete evidence of what you claim. I haven't seen any public denunciations of extreme Muslims by any liberals anywhere, except by me. What I do see all the time are liberals who fight conservatives, or anyone else who realizes that extremist Muslims are a hazard, both to Muslims themselves and to the world at large.

    Anyway, as you can see, I'm not anywhere near being a neocon, or conservative. I am, however, perhaps a liberal who isn't afraid to state that my beliefs are superior to faux liberals, crazy conservatives and most especially, extremist Muslims.

    Can you point me to the relevant threads here on GR or on any liberal blog, where liberals, faux or otherwise, have denounced extremist Muslims? I've been looking for a long time.

    But you haven't answered my most important question. Did you do anything about the atrocities in my abridged list of terrible, non liberals events in this world? I did. What did you do?

    And if you didn't do anything, how does that affect your own belief system that you're a liberal?

    Because, IMO, you can't have done nothing and still consider yourself a liberal. You're something else, but what, I don't know.

    And BTW, I'm not telling you what you believe. I'm asking you. Are you a true liberal or not?
    um..I am a liberal..and I have posted PLENTY of anti-fanatical muslim stuff. check out the religion thread. I also posted the infamous 'Danish Cartoon Mohammed"(but I regret it, since it was inflammatory). You are really not fooling anyone with your masquerade as a person seeking 'discourse and enlightenment' crap. Your own word choice, what you choose to respond to, your examples sited, all show your leanings...or your 'faux' (since your like to use that word so) pretend bullshit Conservatism being presented by a nutter just to get something going. Actually I couldn't care less since you are either way a waste of time. At least have the guts to come out and admit what you are. We have all been here done that with whatever kind you are so hopefully you will just fade away..and leave us 'faux and crazy' liberals to have our stroke-inducing but at least honest battles with real conservatives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weblurker View Post
    Well, I have yet to see any concrete evidence of what you claim. I haven't seen any public denunciations of extreme Muslims by any liberals anywhere, except by me. What I do see all the time are liberals who fight conservatives, or anyone else who realizes that extremist Muslims are a hazard, both to Muslims themselves and to the world at large.

    Anyway, as you can see, I'm not anywhere near being a neocon, or conservative. I am, however, perhaps a liberal who isn't afraid to state that my beliefs are superior to faux liberals, crazy conservatives and most especially, extremist Muslims.

    Can you point me to the relevant threads here on GR or on any liberal blog, where liberals, faux or otherwise, have denounced extremist Muslims? I've been looking for a long time.

    But you haven't answered my most important question. Did you do anything about the atrocities in my abridged list of terrible, non liberals events in this world? I did. What did you do?

    And if you didn't do anything, how does that affect your own belief system that you're a liberal?

    Because, IMO, you can't have done nothing and still consider yourself a liberal. You're something else, but what, I don't know.

    And BTW, I'm not telling you what you believe. I'm asking you. Are you a true liberal or not?
    Liberals and Muslims alike on here have denounced extremist Muslims and extremism of ANY kind.

    Let's turn this around on you...You denounce extreme Islamism but then ahead where is your denunciation of the extremist neo-cons that are running the U.S. government? Last time I checked, they manufacture wars that cause the deaths of 650,000 civilians and MORE if we want to include Afghanistan, sign torture bills and put detainees without charge in Gulags around the world, and have made this world more of a dangerous place.

    Those Neo-cons are on the same headed dragon of extremist Muslims, they are on two sides of the same coin. Infact, they are even more dangerous because they are more powerful and cause the most damage in international relations since they get to steer it however they want.

    The world is not all black and white and all that we mentioned that are involved, they all have blood on their hands.

  11. #26
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    *giggles to himself*

    You want to know why I loathe evangelists and other forms of fucktarded Jesusfreakery?

    Because, unlike their batshit cousins the fundie Islamists (who are just as hideous a creation as any Praise tha LAwwwd type) evangelists and their ilk are sodden with hypocrisy. They fuck little boys, they turn their noses up at the poor, they preach death penalties while wrapping themselves in Jesus flags, they get high and snort everything in sight, and most often they simply use the braindead legions of religious retards to their advantage.. but their public life is one of supposed piety, moral superiority and shellacked, bouffant hair.

    At least the nutjob Islamists have the balls to be exactly what they say they are, upfront. Evangelists are a noisome ichor, and only bleat forgiveness and repentence when their own pallid white bodies are caught on camera with a tween under em.

    They are the most sickeningly ignorant, righteously destructive and insidiously cancerous form of fundamentalism to remove because it's fundamentalism by CHOICE... they CHOOSE to be that wretched of a person because it benefits them, their bigotry and racism (not to mention wallet) to a large degree.

    So pardon me if I continue to beat every damned evangelist into the ground as often as possible through word and deed, until they back the fuck off and leave me, my kind, and everyone else who doesn't want to live in the talons of a theocratic state run by bloated hypocrites, ALONE.

    Anybody who works overtime to oppress others is not a whole human being. They are a blight to be leashed until their genes combine in such a way that their particular form of stupidity is forever wiped from the planet, and they (gasp) evolve into something more... humane.
    Last edited by Grimmlok; January 3rd, 2007 at 07:36 PM.
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    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    Well, I am sorry to have posted such a controversial thread, you all. My impression, is that weblurker(whoever they might be) may be involved in some of the issues at first-hand. At least, he took some time to draw out his opinions without being totally outright combative. It seems to make for a more interesting reading, which is why I have initially posted this thread. Plus, the evangelicals hairdos are sorta funny.

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    You know.
    If you want to argue about how Christians are treated, argue about Christians.
    Don't use the " Yeah but you don't say xxxx about xxxx"
    You create an argument that is very hard to refute and then you hang it around the necks of people who didn't say it.
    What does Islam have to do with saying you don't like Crazy Evangelists?
    I smell a big, burning Straw man here.
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  14. #29
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MgMMD View Post
    You know.
    If you want to argue about how Christians are treated, argue about Christians.
    Don't use the " Yeah but you don't say xxxx about xxxx"
    You create an argument that is very hard to refute and then you hang it around the necks of people who didn't say it.
    What does Islam have to do with saying you don't like Crazy Evangelists?
    I smell a big, burning Straw man here.
    lol, who are you talking about or what are you talking about, MgMMD? I am not followinng your thought-process? Straw man? Like the Straw man in the wizard of oz who needed courage? I'm confussed. I posted this thread, not to start a controversy, but to understand where some of us stand.

  15. #30
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    look up "straw man argument", and i think she was talking to the right-wingnut who seems to have mysteriously vanished.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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