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Thread: ACORN fires 2 after hidden-camera footage aired

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    The guy doing these tapes said there is a new one being shown tonight, he hasn't revealed the Acorn location but stated “It’s a slightly different discussion in this one than you’ve seen so far.” He also said there are more tapes after that.



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    Did Fox only pay this kid $3,000 for these tapes? I think that's what I heard. They should give him a bonus because they are just mining this for gold. Fox has been blathering on ACORN for about a year and never had much to go on. Now they do.

    ACORN should have woken up earlier this year. They were a target last year during the election, and Fox continued to target them on their broadcasts earlier this year. Hello? Don't give your opponents a chance to drag you around in the mud.

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    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    ^^^They should have been on top of this, not because of Fox News, but becuase the things they've been caught doing here in multiple locations are massively fucked up. Trying to avoid giving Fox any leverage should not have been the primary motivator. This makes it seem as though all that Fox has been blathering about all this time has really been accurate, it just couldn't be verified until now.

    As an independent it really bothers me that if this had been an undercover expose of a right-wing group there would be at least 15 pages by now (which would be fine, but it's troublesome that people here seem to want to sort of skim over this). Giving the green light for tax evasion and child sex trafficking is a big fucking deal no matter who is doing it.
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I didn't say that Fox viewers were stupid -- I said insular. There is actually a difference between the two terms.

    With regard to the ACORN videos, from what I've heard this guy went trolling from office to office with his scenarios and gotcha video. Fair is fair, and if they find out that ACORN is systematically approving and abetting this behavior, then federal funding should be withdrawn and they can start looking into RICO violations.

    With regard to churches - tax exempt vs. funding -- in the grand scheme of things, I don't see a big difference. One gets money from the Government, but isn't taxed (presumably). While the other collects huge sums of money as a "non-profit" and gets to keep them because of a special exemption from the government.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    As an independent it really bothers me that if this had been an undercover expose of a right-wing group there would be at least 15 pages by now (which would be fine, but it's troublesome that people here seem to want to sort of skim over this). Giving the green light for tax evasion and child sex trafficking is a big fucking deal no matter who is doing it.
    I couldn't agree more. It's abhorrent. Right is right, no matter which side you align yourself with politically. The fact that people are ignoring, and even downplaying this is repellant.

    There have been 5 tapes now, and this isn't 'gotcha' video. It's investigative reporting, the type 60 Minutes used to do, in the old days before the media became a joke. These tactics are a legitimate manner of investigation by the press. The press has a unique role in American society; a role that is to protect the people from corrupting influences on public life. It's what a free press is expected to do.

    These videos show ACORN workers are experienced in advising tricks of the trade to evade taxes and law enforcement. The response from ACORN- cry McCarthyism, and blame FOX.

    ACORN isn't being persecuted, there's a story here. Even during the election the voter registration fraud story was pooh-poohed, but if people had bothered to read up on it instead of dismissing it as repub smears, they would know that 1/3 of the voters registered by Acorn were rejected. Not an insignificant number. That was reported in the NY Times, not Fox news.



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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I couldn't agree more. It's abhorrent. Right is right, no matter which side you align yourself with politically. The fact that people are ignoring, and even downplaying this is repellant.

    There have been 5 tapes now, and this isn't 'gotcha' video. It's investigative reporting, the type 60 Minutes used to do, in the old days before the media became a joke. These tactics are a legitimate manner of investigation by the press. The press has a unique role in American society; a role that is to protect the people from corrupting influences on public life. It's what a free press is expected to do.

    These videos show ACORN workers are experienced in advising tricks of the trade to evade taxes and law enforcement. The response from ACORN- cry McCarthyism, and blame FOX.

    ACORN isn't being persecuted, there's a story here. Even during the election the voter registration fraud story was pooh-poohed, but if people had bothered to read up on it instead of dismissing it as repub smears, they would know that 1/3 of the voters registered by Acorn were rejected. Not an insignificant number. That was reported in the NY Times, not Fox news.
    ACORN self reported the 1/3 voters that were rejected. That's an FEC rule, and as far as I know, ACORN was not found violating any FEC rules in that regard. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me.

    I'm a regular Fox viewer. I'm a masochist. For the past 9 months on Fox, it's been "ACORN, ACORN, ACORN, Jeremiah Wright, Jeremiah Wright, Van Jones, Van Jones, Van Jones, blah, blah, blah." Because that's what FoxNews does. Orient the majority of it programming over anything it perceives as negative toward Obama. It's freaking mindboggling.

    If you type "ACORN" in Google News, you will see now that EVERYBODY is covering this story. Not just brave little FoxNews. It's not being ignored by the mainstream media. But FoxNews always likes to portray things that way -- because that means that you can only go to FoxNews for "The Truth".

    This Sunday, their morning hosts were saying that none of the mainstream media organizations were covering the healthcare march on Washington over the weekend. They kept saying that they went to this site and that site (including the Washington Post) and couldn't find anything. However, when I picked up my big-ass Sunday edition of the Post off the driveway, there was a giant front-page, above-the-fold story on the march, saying "tens of thousands" attended.

  8. #23
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    ACORN self reported the 1/3 voters that were rejected. That's an FEC rule, and as far as I know, ACORN was not found violating any FEC rules in that regard. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me.
    They self corrected 3 weeks after making the initial claim of registering 1.3 million voters:

    Group’s Tally of New Voters Was Vastly Overstated

    On Oct. 6, the community organizing group Acorn and an affiliated charity called Project Vote announced with jubilation that they had registered 1.3 million new voters. But it turns out the claim was a wild exaggeration, and the real number of newly registered voters nationwide is closer to 450,000, Project Vote’s executive director, Michael Slater, said in an interview.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/us...corn.html?_r=1


    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I'm a regular Fox viewer. I'm a masochist. For the past 9 months on Fox, it's been "ACORN, ACORN, ACORN, Jeremiah Wright, Jeremiah Wright, Van Jones, Van Jones, Van Jones, blah, blah, blah." Because that's what FoxNews does. Orient the majority of it programming over anything it perceives as negative toward Obama. It's freaking mindboggling.

    If you type "ACORN" in Google News, you will see now that EVERYBODY is covering this story. Not just brave little FoxNews. It's not being ignored by the mainstream media. But FoxNews always likes to portray things that way -- because that means that you can only go to FoxNews for "The Truth".

    This Sunday, their morning hosts were saying that none of the mainstream media organizations were covering the healthcare march on Washington over the weekend. They kept saying that they went to this site and that site (including the Washington Post) and couldn't find anything. However, when I picked up my big-ass Sunday edition of the Post off the driveway, there was a giant front-page, above-the-fold story on the march, saying "tens of thousands" attended.
    I haven't gone into the FOX angle. Even the fact that other outlets didn't pick up on this so quickly doesn't really bother me. That wasn't the point of my post. In my post I mentioned FOX in passing, in regard to ACORN blaming them, and as something reported by the Times and not FOX. I'm not sure if all the FOX references in your post are directed at me or in general, so I'll just assume it's in general.

    To me the issue is how the public respond once a story breaks, and in this case I've seen this story pooh poohed, ignored, and scoffed at as bullshit, and a few bad apples. I think I was pretty clear about that in my post. There's a story here, and people can choose to look the other way if they like. It's just a great example of how people only see what they want to see. That's something the left likes to accuse the right of, but from where I stand neither side has the high ground on blindness.

    ETA: The proof to me that there is a real story is in how fast everyone is DC is now looking to distance themselves from ACORN, the WH had Gibbs speaking on it, the Senate vote, the Census will not be using ACORN this time. Rats fleeing the sinking ship, as it were.
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; September 17th, 2009 at 10:05 AM.



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  9. #24
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I haven't gone into the FOX angle. Even the fact that other outlets didn't pick up on this so quickly doesn't really bother me. That wasn't the point of my post. In my post I mentioned FOX in passing, in regard to ACORN blaming them, and as something reported by the Times and not FOX. I'm not sure if all the FOX references in your post are directed at me or in general, so I'll just assume it's in general.

    To me the issue is how the public respond once a story breaks, and in this case I've seen this story pooh poohed, ignored, and scoffed at as bullshit, and a few bad apples. I think I was pretty clear about that in my post.
    The Fox angle comes up because Fox has been the incubator for the story and literally every host on the channel - from Fox and Friends, to O'Reilly, to Beck (especially) to Hannity -- have been covering it like it's the only other issue in the world besides evil HR 3200 and the townhall meetings.

    I don't blame the other channels for not fixating on the story when it was just one instance. However, now that multiple instances are being reported, EVERYONE is picking up the story. Not ignoring it.

    On a side note, the woman playing the prostitute in the videos is Hannah Giles, daughter of loudmouth columnist Doug Giles.

  10. #25
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    ^ I don't watch FOX ever, so I haven't seen their coverage. I'll take your word for it, because that's how they cover everything.

    But I'll state again, I did not criticize the news coverage or lack, but the response I've seen from people. So I'm confused as to why you keep quoting my posts and talking about the news outlets and their coverage, when those aren't issues I'm speaking about at all.

    My mention of the press was only in relation to the fact that 'hidden camera investigative reporting' is a long accepted form of journalism, and people now criticizing it is something I find strange. Sorry if that was unclear.



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  11. #26
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    ^ I don't watch FOX ever, so I haven't seen their coverage. I'll take your word for it, because that's how they cover everything.

    But I'll state again, I did not criticize the news coverage or lack, but the response I've seen from people. So I'm confused as to why you keep quoting my posts and talking about the news outlets and their coverage, when those aren't issues I'm speaking about at all.
    I'm pretty sure I didn't quote your posts until my 10:42 am post. If you didn't see the ACORN news on FoxNews, I'm curious about where you saw it.

    Second, I'm responding to the fact that you said that ACORN is not being persecuted and this is not gotcha video. FoxNews has had a hardon for ACORN for almost a year, and act as the clearinghouse for every accusation that is floated toward them no matter how tenuous. I disagree with the muckraking characterization and quality of journalism of these videos, especially with the uncritical reporting by both the videographers and FoxNews that Tresa Kaelke (ACORN worker) had murdered a former husband when it wasn't true. So much for following up and getting the facts straight on salacious details.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I'm pretty sure I didn't quote your posts until my 10:42 am post. If you didn't see the ACORN news on FoxNews, I'm curious about where you saw it.

    Second, I'm responding to the fact that you said that ACORN is not being persecuted and this is not gotcha video. FoxNews has had a hardon for ACORN for almost a year, and act as the clearinghouse for every accusation that is floated toward them no matter how tenuous. I disagree with the muckraking characterization and quality of journalism of these videos, especially with the uncritical reporting by both the videographers and FoxNews that Tresa Kaelke (ACORN worker) had murdered a former husband when it wasn't true. So much for following up and getting the facts straight on salacious details.
    I've seen them on the web, they're everywhere. Tons of sites now have them up. I hope that satisfies your curiosity.

    And yes, I acknowledged way upthread that FOX has an axe to grind- yesterday at 3:30 PM in fact.

    But I don't disagree with the two people that made these videos. I believe in that type of journalism, and I don't consider it gotcha video. Mike Wallace did for years. No one had an issue with it then, except the people that were shown doing something wrong.

    ACORN in this case is not being persecuted, because the employees on them show a willingness to help people evade taxes and skirt laws. If they were not showing the 'pimp' how to evade taxes, and ignoring the fact that they were just told about a brothel staffed with children, and then people were trying to make an issue of it, I would think they were being persecuted.



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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I've seen them on the web, they're everywhere. Tons of sites now have them up. I hope that satisfies your curiosity.

    And yes, I acknowledged way upthread that FOX has an axe to grind- yesterday at 3:30 PM in fact.

    But I don't disagree with the two people that made these videos. I believe in that type of journalism, and I don't consider it gotcha video. Mike Wallace did for years. No one had an issue with it then, except the people that were shown doing something wrong.

    ACORN in this case is not being persecuted, because the employees on them show a willingness to help people evade taxes and skirt laws. If they were not showing the 'pimp' how to evade taxes, and ignoring the fact that they were just told about a brothel staffed with children, and then people were trying to make an issue of it, I would think they were being persecuted.
    Okay - with regard to seeing them on the web. I understand that. A lot of people get their news that way. Exactly how many, I don't know. However, if there is a "broadcast" news organization that was trumpeting the initial report other than FoxNews, I'd like to know who it was. And because the initial broadcasts were coming from FoxNews, I think it is fair to say that a lot of people are not going to rush forward to cover it, considering FoxNews' fetish for all things ACORN. Once multiple videos came out, you can see now that virtually everyone is covering the story.

    I don't carry any water for ACORN, but I also don't know if it would be a fair characterization that you could walk into any ACORN office in the country and get someone to help you establish a tax-free child prostitution ring. How many ACORN offices are there? What percentage of offices had employees who implicated themselves in the tapes? How many ACORN offices realized the videographers and told them to take a hike? And have the videographers reported on that at all? Which would be the kind of fair disclosure you would get from actual journalists. Why did the videographers and Fox breathlessly repeat Kaelke's claims that she killed an ex-husband without using their journalistic skills to find out they weren't true?

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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    They self corrected 3 weeks after making the initial claim of registering 1.3 million voters:

    Group’s Tally of New Voters Was Vastly Overstated

    On Oct. 6, the community organizing group Acorn and an affiliated charity called Project Vote announced with jubilation that they had registered 1.3 million new voters. But it turns out the claim was a wild exaggeration, and the real number of newly registered voters nationwide is closer to 450,000, Project Vote’s executive director, Michael Slater, said in an interview.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/us...corn.html?_r=1




    I haven't gone into the FOX angle. Even the fact that other outlets didn't pick up on this so quickly doesn't really bother me. That wasn't the point of my post. In my post I mentioned FOX in passing, in regard to ACORN blaming them, and as something reported by the Times and not FOX. I'm not sure if all the FOX references in your post are directed at me or in general, so I'll just assume it's in general.

    To me the issue is how the public respond once a story breaks, and in this case I've seen this story pooh poohed, ignored, and scoffed at as bullshit, and a few bad apples. I think I was pretty clear about that in my post. There's a story here, and people can choose to look the other way if they like. It's just a great example of how people only see what they want to see. That's something the left likes to accuse the right of, but from where I stand neither side has the high ground on blindness.

    ETA: The proof to me that there is a real story is in how fast everyone is DC is now looking to distance themselves from ACORN, the WH had Gibbs speaking on it, the Senate vote, the Census will not be using ACORN this time. Rats fleeing the sinking ship, as it were.

    Thank you!!!!Lately it sems that the left just automatically screams 'Smear!' and 'Bullshit' anytime an allegation against them comes up, but they don't bother to refute the 'smear' with any facts to show why it's not a real, legitimate accusation. It's as if they believe that it's not possible for their team to do anything wrong and, when forced to accept that something wrong has been done, it suddenly becomes a case of a few bad apples instead of accepting the possibility that they have as much corruption as anybody else. This only empowers the right wing, which bothers me for many reasons. People need to self- police better . Be pissed that Obama kept trying to appoint tax cheats to prominent positions instead of blaming the Repugs for creating 'smear' tactics just because they happen to think it's important enough to object to (as any rational person would, I hope).
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    Thank you!!!!Lately it sems that the left just automatically screams 'Smear!' and 'Bullshit' anytime an allegation against them comes up, but they don't bother to refute the 'smear' with any facts to show why it's not a real, legitimate accusation. It's as if they believe that it's not possible for their team to do anything wrong and, when forced to accept that something wrong has been done, it suddenly becomes a case of a few bad apples instead of accepting the possibility that they have as much corruption as anybody else. This only empowers the right wing, which bothers me for many reasons. People need to self- police better . Be pissed that Obama kept trying to appoint tax cheats to prominent positions instead of blaming the Repugs for creating 'smear' tactics just because they happen to think it's important enough to object to (as any rational person would, I hope).
    I agree that neither party has a monopoly on virtue. Clearly, the democrats also have problems with corruption, as the developing story with Charles Rangel (D-NY) shows. As far as I know, people aren't rushing to defend him, saying that he has been smeared. At least, not as far as I have been able to see so far.

    I also want to apologize to Witchcurlgirl if it seemed like I was implying that there is no basis (fire) behind the smoke we are seeing around ACORN. I think your anger is justified. Maybe I'm watching more FoxNews than is healthy.

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