Abortion Leader Says OK To Murder Babies After They're Born

[Delphinium]

This all comes down to one question for me (or maybe several connected questions): should only people who have money in the bank be allowed to have sex, in case that sex act results in an unplanned pregnancy? Of course not. Sex is one of the last free pleasures in life. Given that many conservatives are against birth control and, as someone pointed out, the system is overloaded with unwanted kids, again, should only those who can afford it be allowed to have sex just in case the sex ends in an unwanted pregnancy? It seems like some are saying that a person should live with the 'punishment' of an unplanned pregnancy. Personally, I think if a woman has a baby that she wasn't exactly counting on, we as a society should help her out. Even if we don't agree with pre-marital sex or single mothers, ultimately there is an innocent child who will suffer should we not. In addition, considering that there are vast numbers of married couples who can barely support themselves (thanks for that minimum wage hike, congress!), should we say that they shouldn't have sex until they are in a conmfortable financial position and are able to afford having a child?

I think there are some people living in an alternative universe, where people don't get horny, where people have perfect lives, where people never make so-called 'mistakes'.

And how do you deal with the family that started out with resources to raise children and then something goes wrong? Just say a job is lost or someone dies or the house burns down and there isn't any insurance; should those people be 'punished' as well and no help given?

Perhaps we need to go back and read our Dickens, Frank McCourt, etc and be reminded what it was like when poor people were blamed for thier circumstances. It wasn't pretty. And it still isn't.

so people unprepared for parenthood should be able to procreate at random because sex "feels good" and the rest of us should pay their bills, pay for their child care etc. WRONG!

If you are old enough to play, you are old enough to pay.

I've got no problem with tax dollars going to help the needy, BUT I do believe it should be tied directly to drug testing and work programs. Also, I firmly believe if a woman is on welfare and becomes pregnant again, then her benefits should NOT be increased to cover the extra cost. AND assistance should be limited to no more than 5 years (long enough to learn a trade or get a degree).

I don't see anyone here inviting the local unwed crackhead pregnant mom to move in with them on their dime.

[moomies]

I don't see anyone here inviting the local unwed crackhead pregnant mom to move in with them on their dime.

Not every woman who ends up in an unfortunate situation is a druggie or irresponsible teenager. You don't know the circumstances that led to single parenthood but you seem to like to generalize...
Welfare and other social assistance programs can potentially be abused but if ppl have big enough hearts and some extra income why not help others who make "mistakes"?

[Zee]

I've got no problem with tax dollars going to help the needy, BUT I do believe it should be tied directly to drug testing and work programs. Also, I firmly believe if a woman is on welfare and becomes pregnant again, then her benefits should NOT be increased to cover the extra cost. AND assistance should be limited to no more than 5 years (long enough to learn a trade or get a degree).

I don't see anyone here inviting the local unwed crackhead pregnant mom to move in with them on their dime.

Have you ever been remotely involved in a drug testing program? You catch the stupid ones. Those that don't know the tricks of fooling a drug test or haven't catherized (sp) themselves with clean drug free urine. So if you do catch somebody the humane thing is to set up some sort of rehabilition program not kick em on their ass.

Why not sell the welfare babies? That should bring revenue into the whole system.

[pacific breeze]

Well, Delphinium, if you've got no problem with tax dollars going to the needy, then why does the government you claim to support constantly cut social spending in favour of giving all their corporate friends welfare in the form of huge tax breaks? What comes around goes around.

And before you say "trickle-down" economics, that's a theory that's never been proved even once.

[Charlotte]

so people unprepared for parenthood should be able to procreate at random because sex "feels good" and the rest of us should pay their bills, pay for their child care etc. WRONG!

Unless you're from China or any other countries which police procreation ANYONE has the freedom to procreate at random. As for taxes - you pay in and you also receive. One day you may need need benefits and you'll be entitled to them, regardless of whether the supplier of said money has a moral problem with your life choices/lifestyle.

If you are old enough to play, you are old enough to pay.

Terrible logic. Not actually based in any form of fact. Another tired slogan from the 'tough shit, it's your fault for not being like me' crowd.

I've got no problem with tax dollars going to help the needy,

Only if it's your definition of needy.

Also, I firmly believe if a woman is on welfare and becomes pregnant again, then her benefits should NOT be increased to cover the extra cost. AND assistance should be limited to no more than 5 years (long enough to learn a trade or get a degree).

Very Christian. And there's me thinking that Jesus lived among the poor and the whores. Not really following his example, are you? All your proposals will do is increase poverty and/or abortion. Ironic, really.

[cynic]

Wow. You people are freaking me out with you complete lack of human empathy. I really would dislike being you.

You call it lacking empathy. I call it minding my own business.

Other people's problems are other people's problems. Survival of the fittest. Anything else is screwing up the natural order of things.

You cannot legislate against stupidity. We can't build that many jails.....

[buttmunch]

So you're saying it's stupid to have sex?

I've got no problem with tax dollars going to help the needy, BUT I do believe it should be tied directly to drug testing and work programs. Also, I firmly believe if a woman is on welfare and becomes pregnant again, then her benefits should NOT be increased to cover the extra cost. AND assistance should be limited to no more than 5 years (long enough to learn a trade or get a degree).

I don't see anyone here inviting the local unwed crackhead pregnant mom to move in with them on their dime.

So screw the kids caught up in this situation, eh? You're the Christian poster girl. I guess you don't have one of those 'what would jesus do' bracelets, eh?

[cynic]

[quote=buttmunch;392638]So you're saying it's stupid to have sex?


Well, unprotected sex and sex under the influence and sex with strangers.....yes........ And if you marry a stupid person and you have sex with them and produce children with abandon and no resources on which to raise them.....yes, stupid sex......which is usually followed up by those children being stupid themselves.

THAT'S when I want to be able to shoot them......before they breed.....

[Sojiita]

Alot of these people(not all or even most of course) who are the ones 'making stupid choices' etc. are the people who are the most damaged and are often the victims in this society. Often times it is the people who have had lives of poverty, neglect, abuse, etc. who are the ones who are making the 'bad decisions'..and these are the people who would benefit the most from programs(governmental or not) that would address these issues. It is often a question of people in pain acting out, not people being selfish or people being stupid. For those who are going on and on about walking the straight and narrow-congratulations on your superiority; but how many of you were the ones who were downtrodden, abused, neglected, poor, powerless, a minority, discriminated against, brought up in an environment where education was limited..etc. etc. ad infinitum???????
Also isn't it strange how those who are so quick to judge are the ones with so little to offer in the way of help to people BEFORE they actually make the wrong decisions????

[ohmygoodness]

Survival of the fittest is a natural phenomenon, and not something that is or should per perpetuated by humans.

[cynic]

Sadly, it is my experience that people can rise above their circumstances, but they have to have intelligence and perserverance. Yes, I have been most of the things you list, but I still managed to better myself by making a lot of sacrifices and keeping my eye on my goals.

I never made excuses for myself. I just worked harder and used my brain to the best of my ability. I controlled my reproductive organs to the best of my ability and am damned glad that the religious right has not been successful in taking that away.

"Victim" should not be a life-long description...... Help can be very damaging if it is continuously offered and a person has no incentive to take care of their own messes and problems. You rip out a person's spine that way....

[Sojiita]

Sadly, it is my experience that people can rise above their circumstances, but they have to have intelligence and perserverance. Yes, I have been most of the things you list, but I still managed to better myself by making a lot of sacrifices and keeping my eye on my goals.

I never made excuses for myself. I just worked harder and used my brain to the best of my ability. I controlled my reproductive organs to the best of my ability and am damned glad that the religious right has not been successful in taking that away.

"Victim" should not be a life-long description...... Help can be very damaging if it is continuously offered and a person has no incentive to take care of their own messes and problems. You rip out a person's spine that way....

my post was not really directed at you cynic. And true people should not become dependent on help..but there should at least be the opportunity for help there in the first place. A very good example would be the homeless population...comprised mainly of drug addicts and the mentally ill-people who need LOTS of help..and this government and this society has fallen far short in providing it. And I am glad that you have overcome your circumstances..but again it is apparent to me from your posts that you are blessed with a 'brain ability' that would probably be better than most. Did not your own good brain ability(and your wisely being able to use it to the best of your ability)not give you an advantage over people in similar circumstance you were without your cognitive abilities and insights?

[pacific breeze]

^^Agreed. There is a saying: To those for whom much has been given, more is asked.

If you have superior intelligence, money etc. that means you should do more with it, not less. We all live in this world together, like it or not.

[dakodas]

[quote=cynic;392680]

So you're saying it's stupid to have sex?


Well, unprotected sex and sex under the influence and sex with strangers.....yes........ And if you marry a stupid person and you have sex with them and produce children with abandon and no resources on which to raise them.....yes, stupid sex......which is usually followed up by those children being stupid themselves.

THAT'S when I want to be able to shoot them......before they breed.....

But we NEED stupid people to work as drones!

[cynic]

my post was not really directed at you cynic. And true people should not become dependent on help..but there should at least be the opportunity for help there in the first place. A very good example would be the homeless population...comprised mainly of drug addicts and the mentally ill-people who need LOTS of help..and this government and this society has fallen far short in providing it. And I am glad that you have overcome your circumstances..but again it is apparent to me from your posts that you are blessed with a 'brain ability' that would probably be better than most. Did not your own good brain ability(and your wisely being able to use it to the best of your ability)not give you an advantage over people in similar circumstance you were without your cognitive abilities and insights?

I got "brain ability" when I stopped listening to my hormones, stopped doing drugs and drinking.....

Where does the list begin and end, the homeless, the addicted, the mentally ill, the physically ill, the physically handicapped, the young, the old, the mentally dull, the socially handicapped, the emotionally retarded, the educationally slow, the obese, the anorexic, the people harmed by their parents, those harmed by strangers, the truly ugly people, the awesomely suicidal risktakers, the depressed, the manic.......

Everyone is a victim and if everyone gives up......we're all in deep kaka.....

I hate to sound like an AA slogan here, but you have to do the best you can with what you have and not wait until someone comes and helps you to do it better.....

But, I think I'm being mean today, so take everything I'm saying with a pound or two of salt.....I find getting righteous helps me out of the blues.... The phrase "help an addict" brings up a whole world of shit in me....sorry about your shoes there....