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Thread: Employee Free Choice Act - it's worse than Islamofascist terrorist gays!

  1. #1
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Red face Employee Free Choice Act - it's worse than Islamofascist terrorist gays!

    Can we call for a moratorium on gratuitously comparing things we don't like to Islamic terrorists?

    A few weeks ago, we had a Mormon GOP state Senator in Utah saying that gays were the biggest threat facing America, akin to Muslim terrorists. And now we have one of the top billionaire hotel magnates in Vegas claiming at that the Employee Free Choice Act is actually tied with Radical Islam for the biggest threat to the world.

    It's just so hard to keep your number one status nowadays. I really need to talk to the cabal.

    Now, I have no problem making a valid comparison to anything. I've written before about my annoyance with some Jewish groups who freak out every time anything is compared to the Holocaust. And while, yes, it's a bit ridiculous to compare a tax bill in the Senate to the Holocaust, not every comparison is invalid - and in any case, as the old saying go, it's better to be talked about than to be forgotten. And the same goes for "Islamic terrorists." I've called the religious right "America's Taliban." And I would again. I didn't sloppily choose the allusion simply because the Taliban is bad and the religious right is bad. I did it because both are uber-conservative religious zealots who oppose modernity, and who wish to force the majority in their own country, and the world, to live under their own draconian, backward, discriminatory rules. It's a real comparison based on multiple, actual details.

    Anyway, back to the Employee Free Choice Act. SEIU has done a cute video poking fun at the "End of the World" crowd. (Oh, and for those who are curious, the Employee Free Choice Act simply makes it easier for employees to unionize if they so choose.)

    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOM0AMUqviY&eurl=http://www.americablog.com/&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]

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    I mean, really? lol
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    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    We are being bombarded here with ads regarding the Free Choice Act, and we only have a local voting day this year. Dumb.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    the guy's a douche

    But the act has some troubling details.....like the loss of secret union ballots.

    According to polls, more than 80% of Americans would oppose outright elimination of secret ballots for union voting, that's an enormous figure.

    The blogwriter is being disingenious when he writes 'Oh, and for those who are curious, the Employee Free Choice Act simply makes it easier for employees to unionize if they so choose'......there's quite a bit more to this act than that.
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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    the guy's a douche

    But the act has some troubling details.....like the loss of secret union ballots.

    According to polls, more than 80% of Americans would oppose outright elimination of secret ballots for union voting, that's an enormous figure.
    That's actually incorrect, and being spread incorrectly by the media.


    Reporters have consistently utilized the language of the conservative shills and gotten this issue wrong. The most important misconception is this: The Employee Free Choice Act does not take away the right to a secret ballot:


    That process would still be available under the Employee Free Choice Act. The legislation simply gives workers the choice of forming their union through an election or through majority sign-up. The majority sign-up process has been a widely used path to union representation since 1935, but workers may only use the majority sign-up process currently if their employer agrees. The Employee Free Choice Act puts that choice in the hands of employees rather than their employer.


    In other words, the Act will do just what it says: Give Employees – instead of Employers – the right to choose whether they want to form a union by majority sign up OR secret ballot election. Face it, right now in union elections, the corporations hold all the power. The elections are held on their property under their watchful eyes. It would be like holding all of our elections at the RNC headquarters.

    The most pro-worker administration in generations is now in power. But, you wouldn't know that from the traditional media. At a meeting last month with the Washington Post editorial Board, President Obama made very supportive and welcome remarks about the Employee Free Choice Act:

    Here's my basic principal that wages and incomes have flatlined over the last decade. That part of that has to do with forces that are beyond everybody's control: globalization, technology and so forth. Part of it has to do with workers have very little leverage and that larger and larger shares of our productivity go to the top and not to the middle or the bottom. I think unions serve an important role in that. I think that the way the Bush Administration managed the Department of Labor, the NLRB, and a host of other aspects of labor management relations put the thumb too heavily against unions. I want to lift that thumb. There are going to be steps that we can take other than the Employee Free Choice Act that will make a difference there.

    I think the basic principal of making it easier and fairer for workers who want to join a union, join a union is important. And the basic outline of the Employee Fair Choice are ones that I agree with. But I will certainly listen to all parties involved including from labor and the business community which I know considers this to be the devil incarnate. I will listen to parties involved and see if there are ways that we can bring those parties together and restore some balance.

    You know, now if the business community's argument against the Employee Free Choice Act is simply that it will make it easier for people to join unions and we think that is damaging to the economy then they probably won't get too far with me. If their arguments are we think there are more elegant ways of doing this or here are some modifications or tweaks to the general concept that we would like to see. Then I think that's a conversation that not only myself but folks in labor would be willing to have. But, so that's the general approach that I am interested in taking. But in terms of time table, if we are losing half a million jobs a month then there are no jobs to unionize. So my focus first is on those key economic priority items that I just mentioned.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    That's actually incorrect, and being spread incorrectly by the media.
    He's leaving part of it out. In the first link he posts, the #2 point is: MYTH: The National Labor Relations Board’s “secret ballot” election protects workers’ democratic rights. FACT: Secret ballots alone do not guarantee fair elections

    which says to me that they are trying to play down the secret ballot POV.

    Now this is Wiki ( i know, i know), but it's a fairly good explantion of in which cases they would lose the secret ballot:

    The two methods for recognizing a union in the United States begin with an employee petition for representation by a union. If at least 30% of employees sign petition cards requesting a union, then the cards are submitted to the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) for a secret ballot election. If more than 50% of employees certify their desire for representation, then a union can choose to form using card check procedures. Under current U.S. law, the employer need not recognize the card check petition and can require a secret-ballot vote overseen by the NLRB.

    Under the proposed Employee Free Choice Act, the NLRB would recognize the union's role as the official bargaining representative if a majority of employees have authorized that representation via card check, without requiring a secret ballot election. The Employee Free Choice Act allows employees to choose a secret ballot process to elect union representation if they do not desire a card check petition, but employers are required to accept whichever method employees choose.So yes, the employees get to choose, but if 51% choose card check (open ballot) than it will be open ballot. It leaves the other 49% open to intimidation and coercion.

    Anyway to me the jist of it is keep the bill, but all ballots should be private. I believe in secret ballots in all situations except for public officials. I believe an individual has the right to make these votes in private.....
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    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    He's leaving part of it out. In the first link he posts, the #2 point is: MYTH: The National Labor Relations Board’s “secret ballot” election protects workers’ democratic rights. FACT: Secret ballots alone do not guarantee fair elections

    which says to me that they are trying to play down the secret ballot POV.

    Now this is Wiki ( i know, i know), but it's a fairly good explantion of in which cases they would lose the secret ballot:

    The two methods for recognizing a union in the United States begin with an employee petition for representation by a union. If at least 30% of employees sign petition cards requesting a union, then the cards are submitted to the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) for a secret ballot election. If more than 50% of employees certify their desire for representation, then a union can choose to form using card check procedures. Under current U.S. law, the employer need not recognize the card check petition and can require a secret-ballot vote overseen by the NLRB.

    Under the proposed Employee Free Choice Act, the NLRB would recognize the union's role as the official bargaining representative if a majority of employees have authorized that representation via card check, without requiring a secret ballot election. The Employee Free Choice Act allows employees to choose a secret ballot process to elect union representation if they do not desire a card check petition, but employers are required to accept whichever method employees choose.


    If you can disband/discontinue a union via card check, as you can do now, then why shouldn't you be able to form a union via card check?
    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    So yes, the employees get to choose, but if 51% choose card check (open ballot) than it will be open ballot. It leaves the other 49% open to intimidation and coercion.

    Anyway to me the jist of it is keep the bill, but all ballots should be private. I believe in secret ballots in all situations except for public officials. I believe an individual has the right to make these votes in private.....
    All unions are formed when more than 50% of the workers want a union.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    If you can disband/discontinue a union via card check, as you can do now, then why shouldn't you be able to form a union via card check?
    I disagree with the fact that they can disband via card check. It creates the same opportunity for intimidation and coercion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    All unions are formed when more than 50% of the workers want a union.
    But this doesn't apply only to the forming of a union. It applies to how the vote for that formation is taken. So if 51% want to take a union vote as an open ballot they can.

    I just think the ballot should be private. Like I said above I think all ballots except for public servants voting on legislation should be private.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


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