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Thread: Evangelical 'Christians' fear losing right to incite murder

  1. #1
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Evangelical 'Christians' fear losing right to incite murder

    From our dear friends in the religious right:


    The Hate Crimes bill re-introduced by Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee will add homosexuals as a protected group to existing hate crime legislation. The bill will make it a federal crime for pastors to use the Bible to speak out against homosexuality if in response to that teaching someone commits an act of violence against a homosexual. This will effectively stifle the ability of pastors to preach the Word of God without fear of prosecution. Vision America has a plan to stop this Bill.


    Inspiring someone to commit murder either is or isn't a crime already. The hate crimes bill has nothing to do with the spoken word - it has to deal with people dragging you behind their truck for a mile, or tying to you to a fence and pistol-whipping you in the head. I shouldn't be surprised, but still I am. Whining about your fear that you'll lose the right to incite murder. Only in America.

    Needless to say, the Hate Crimes bill doesn't deal with speech. And in fact, America has had a hate crimes law for decades now, and no one has gone to jail for dissing blacks or whites, or people of faith, all of whom are already protected under the existing hate crimes laws. But somehow adding gays to a law that is already on the books, will magically make the law outlaw speech. Right. Evangelical bigots have a serious aversion to the truth. (H/t reader Sherril)

    AMERICAblog News| A great nation deserves the truth
    Such lovely people. Really.
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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    i'm basking in god's warm love just from reading this.
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    Elite Member NicoleWasHere's Avatar
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    I'm praising Jesus all up in it.

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    Elite Member Mariesoleil's Avatar
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    Ugh...
    "Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counsellors, and the most patient of teachers."

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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I hope its enforced equally with respect to mosques.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Pretty sure it would encompass all religions.
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    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    The Hate Crimes bill re-introduced by Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee will add homosexuals as a protected group to existing hate crime legislation. The bill will make it a federal crime for pastors to use the Bible to speak out against homosexuality if in response to that teaching someone commits an act of violence against a homosexual. This will effectively stifle the ability of pastors to preach the Word of God without fear of prosecution. Vision America has a plan to stop this Bill.
    The part in bold is a problem. That specific is placing the blame for one's actions upon another. Unless a pastor specifically preaches that someone should be hurt, he or she is not, in any way, responsible for the actions committed by someone else, even if that person is a member of his congregation.

    That is going entirely too far and infringing upon free speech and freedom of religion. A pastor has a right to say,"Homosexuality is wrong/a sin/an abomination." It's not very nice. It's rude. So? No one has the right to harm another. Using the law to effectively silence religion, which is exactly what this is intended to do, is violation of civil rights as well.

    If that portion is thrown out, fine. If not, it should be rejected, in full, requiring a rewrite to remove the portion which clearly violates amendment one. Insulting someone isn't a crime nor can the language of one be blamed for the acts of an unstable person.

    Hurting feelings isn't something the law should be revised to deal with.



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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    hate speech laws cover incitement to racial hatred. are you against those too?

    i don't see why it should be any different for incitement to homophobic hatred.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    DId you just miss this part?

    Needless to say, the Hate Crimes bill doesn't deal with speech. And in fact, America has had a hate crimes law for decades now, and no one has gone to jail for dissing blacks or whites, or people of faith, all of whom are already protected under the existing hate crimes laws. But somehow adding gays to a law that is already on the books, will magically make the law outlaw speech. Right. Evangelical bigots have a serious aversion to the truth.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    You know what I'm tired of? Double standards.

    It's not ok for some organization to use hate speech about blacks or jews, but it's fine for them to use hate speech against gays.

    People will even defend it, saying "it's religion"... despite religion having been used in the recent past to justify the very things that are now considered abominable.

    It's interesting, to me, to watch people contort themselves into defending this hypocrisy.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Oh, I read it all. I quoted one passage and my feelings on that, so do get over yourself. My opposition to an infringement on Amendment One is not support of rejecting adding homosexuals to Hate Crime law.

    As I said before, I won't support anyone infringing on someone's rights.

    hate speech laws cover incitement to racial hatred. are you against those too?
    A pastor saying homosexuality is wrong according to his interpretation of the Bible is hate speech or inciting prejudice based violence? No, it isn't. Unless he calls for violence, it is nothing more than ranting, which is his right. Churches don't like the way I live. Guess what, I stay out of them and if religious zealots start spewing their crap to me, I walk away, after a few choice words, or, if they are in my home, use some choice words while throwing them out.

    You don't like it? Don't listen.

    Don't . It is still legal for the KKK to hold public rallies and marches. They speak openly about their hatred, using derogatory words and stereotypes, at those rallies. Thanks to free speech, as long as they do not call for violence, they are within their rights. Of course, I think they are nothing more than a terrorist group, but if I want the right to say what I think of them, they have to have the right to say what they think of me, as long as they don't tell the attendees to kick my ass or kill me, all they are doing is blowing hot air. The key word is incitement. Saying something bad about a group isn't incitement. It is talking crap, which we all have the right to do.



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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Im sure if he was saying it about blacks you'd have a different reaction in real life, but on here you'll just suck up the theory and say "No, it's fine"

    Thank gawd I'm up here where hate speech is a relic of the past.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member NicoleWasHere's Avatar
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    Are you actually going to answer any of Grimm's questions?

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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    RIS, again, did you see this part:

    Needless to say, the Hate Crimes bill doesn't deal with speech. And in fact, America has had a hate crimes law for decades now, and no one has gone to jail for dissing blacks or whites, or people of faith, all of whom are already protected under the existing hate crimes laws. But somehow adding gays to a law that is already on the books, will magically make the law outlaw speech. Right. Evangelical bigots have a serious aversion to the truth.
    so why are you getting your panties in a twist about a bill that merely adds homosexuals to an already existing law?
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Again, I pointed out one area and have explained where I stand on that one point, as it was presented in those words, hence I drew attention to it.

    And Nicole, before you ask a question, why don't you read everything. First, questions end with question marks, not periods. "You know what I am tired of?" is a question, but one only the asking party can answer. Second, I point ^.

    If anyone calls for violence, they should face charges, regardless of whom it is against. Deciding what is incitement is the key.



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