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Thread: The ACORN canard

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    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Arrow The ACORN canard

    Friday, Sept. 26, 2008 17:35 EDT
    The ACORN canard

    After the mockery directed at community organizers during the Republican convention, it may come as little surprise that in order to justify their opposition to the bailout proposal as currently structured, some Republicans are pointing to a provision intended to support the development of low-income housing. But the basis for their criticism is, at best, misinformed. At worst, it's an outright lie.

    Thursday night, Sen. Lindsey Graham told Fox News' Greta Van Susteren that 20 percent of the funds for "the retired debts" in the Democratic proposal would go to the progressive organizing group ACORN (see the last 30 seconds of the video at the bottom of this post).

    If that seems like an implausibly gigantic amount of money, it's because there's nothing true about Graham's statement. That, however, did not keep various parts of the conservative blogosphere from echoing him. The ever-reliable Michelle Malkin says the bill provides "funding for the left-wing housing entitlement thugs and heavily tax-subsidized fraudsters at ACORN." At the Corner, one of the National Review's blogs, Jack Fowler wrote that Democrats want to sprinkle the organization with "pixie dust," while Jonah Goldberg called the measure an effort "to funnel more shmundo to left wing shock troops."

    There are a few different problems with this claim. First of all, the math cited by Graham and the rest is off. The language in question was added to the proposal by Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., who chairs the Senate Banking Committee. It requires the federal government to set aside a certain portion of any profits realized on the eventual sale of the distressed assets that the Treasury would purchase under the plan. Thirteen percent of the profits would go to the Housing Trust Fund, which allocates money to state and local governments to support affordable housing development. Another 7 percent would go to the Capital Magnet Fund, a program operated by the Treasury that supports efforts to attract capital to poor areas.

    There's not even any reason, at least at this point, to believe that any of the money allocated to the Housing Trust Fund would end up with ACORN.
    Brenda Muniz, the organization's legislative director, told Salon that Graham's claim is "just ludicrous." ACORN itself claims to take no money at all from the government. ACORN Housing, an affiliated but ostensibly autonomous nonprofit that provides free housing counseling, is considering applying for funds from the Housing Trust Fund, but will probably not choose to do so. "It's unlikely that we stand to get anything," Muniz said. Because ACORN Housing's primary area of expertise is housing counseling -- which is not what the Trust Fund's grants are for -- Muniz said that it's "unlikely that they would take on something like that."

    Even if local ACORN Housing affiliates did choose to apply for money from the Housing Trust Fund, they would have to go through the grant proposal process at the state and/or local level. The fund allocates money to state and local government agencies and trust funds, which in turn grant it to housing development organizations that make it through the application process.

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    The ACORN canard - War Room - Salon.com

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    tdkgirl, party of 1, your debunking is ready...
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    ^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    tdkgirl, party of 1, your debunking is ready...
    Her debunking will go something like this: Obama's ties to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are to blame for this mess. And you're just distracting from the REAL issue which is how Palins' e-mails were hacked by an Obama stooge intent on smearing her.

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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Her debunking will go something like this: Obama's ties to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are to blame for this mess. And you're just distracting from the REAL issue which is how Palins' e-mails were hacked by an Obama stooge intent on smearing her.
    Nothing smears worse than the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
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    Gold Member ymeman's Avatar
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    you know what kills me about this? since 2003 I've been talking about the Iraq war and our soldiers and spewing the numbers to anyone who would listen. And it's obvious, with the mortgage crisis and the bank failures and people finally getting pissed off, that these people just absolutely do not care about dead soldiers, maimed soldiers, etc. These flag-waving, rhetoric spewing, red-white-and blue wearing and preaching automatons just absolutely, truely don't give a flip. Color me stupid. Our
    national anthem should go something like 'cash rules everything around me, kill all the soldiers you want just don't mess with my money, dollah dollah bill, yo'. It's such a joke.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    ....yup
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Silver Member albatross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ymeman View Post
    you know what kills me about this? since 2003 I've been talking about the Iraq war and our soldiers and spewing the numbers to anyone who would listen. And it's obvious, with the mortgage crisis and the bank failures and people finally getting pissed off, that these people just absolutely do not care about dead soldiers, maimed soldiers, etc. These flag-waving, rhetoric spewing, red-white-and blue wearing and preaching automatons just absolutely, truely don't give a flip. Color me stupid. Our
    national anthem should go something like 'cash rules everything around me, kill all the soldiers you want just don't mess with my money, dollah dollah bill, yo'. It's such a joke.
    Part of the problem with the war in Iraq is that Bush started a war, but hasn't asked the American people to sacrifice for it. Previous wars came with increased taxes, lifestyles changes, the draft, etc. In this case, the only people sacrificing are the soldiers and their families.

    Then you have the lack of real news coverage of the war - it gets bumped out for stupid celebrity stories. In essence, the Bush administration has acted like the war in Iraq is a basic cable show - someone else is paying for it, and if you see or not, it doesn't have an affect on your life.
    Dear Buddha, please bring me a pony and a plastic rocket...

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by albatross View Post
    Part of the problem with the war in Iraq is that Bush started a war, but hasn't asked the American people to sacrifice for it. Previous wars came with increased taxes, lifestyles changes, the draft, etc. In this case, the only people sacrificing are the soldiers and their families.

    Then you have the lack of real news coverage of the war - it gets bumped out for stupid celebrity stories. In essence, the Bush administration has acted like the war in Iraq is a basic cable show - someone else is paying for it, and if you see or not, it doesn't have an affect on your life.
    I think that's true, but I think it goes a little deeper. I think after 9/11 Bush had the bulk of the country rallying around him, and he had the opportunity to use that as a way to steer this country into making some sacrifices and doing things for the greater good. But instead he squandered that chance, and duped people into the war in Iraq, and now people are pissed off. And I think with the way this war is going, I think it's hard to find too many people who don't have a family member, friend or co-worker in Iraq. The war has touched a lot of people, even if they don't have family members in it. But since it's dragged on so long, and with the way the economy is, people have just gotten numb to the war, which is sad.

    Plus, I think the fact that Bin Laden is still on the loose has complicated things too when it comes to the war. Everybody wants to see Bin Laden caught, but people are divided on how to go about catching him. Some, like McCain, believe 'winning' in Iraq will accomplish that, and other's, like Obama, believe focusing on Afghanistan and Pakistan will accomplish that. And the country is split down those same lines.

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    Elite Member ana-mish-ana's Avatar
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    ^^ Another thing is - Even if they caught Bin Laden, it still wouldnt solve the problem of Islamic terrorism. And Al Qaeda is just a franchise name for a numerous groups who use it for their own agendas which differs from country to country.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    *presses the intercom button again, bored*

    tdkgirl, party of 1, your debunking is ready.. this is last call, for tdkgirl's debunking...
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    **tumbleweed blows by**

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    Quote Originally Posted by ana-mish-ana View Post
    ^^ Another thing is - Even if they caught Bin Laden, it still wouldnt solve the problem of Islamic terrorism. And Al Qaeda is just a franchise name for a numerous groups who use it for their own agendas which differs from country to country.
    True. But from the Bush standpoint, as long as they leave Bin Ladin on the loose, he's the boogyman that they can use to scare people into justifying the war in Iraq.

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    Gold Member ymeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post

    Plus, I think the fact that Bin Laden is still on the loose has complicated things too when it comes to the war. Everybody wants to see Bin Laden caught, but people are divided on how to go about catching him. Some, like McCain, believe 'winning' in Iraq will accomplish that, and other's, like Obama, believe focusing on Afghanistan and Pakistan will accomplish that. And the country is split down those same lines.

    I think too, it's clear that a majority of people in America know we were lied into a war we had no business fighting. America has killed a million innocent people. Only the most delusional think there is any retribution to be gained at this point. We are the terrorists now, the ones that have orphaned 5 million Iraqi children. Catching bin Laden is a footnote at this point, if he's even still alive, because the crimes this country has perpetrated, (even the specific ones that trickle into our consciousness from the internet like the rapes both of Iraqi women and female soldiers or where the soldier threw the little dog off of the cliff while being filmed, after tormenting it) are, realisticially exponentially worse than what happened on 9/11 because of the numbers of crimes. We were terrorized and we became in turn far worse terrorizers. So what gratification is there in catching someone not very much unlike our own gov't. I think most Americans know this on some level at this point, whether they admit or not. I think alot of us feel like the girl on prom night who's been told she's loved only to be left with nothing but a soiled dress the next morning. It's so disgusting that this admin manipulated our legitmate grief to perpetrate the same kind of horrors.

    edit: just for clarity I opposed the Iraq war from day one.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ymeman View Post
    I think too, it's clear that a majority of people in America know we were lied into a war we had no business fighting. America has killed a million innocent people. Only the most delusional think there is any retribution to be gained at this point. We are the terrorists now, the ones that have orphaned 5 million Iraqi children. Catching bin Laden is a footnote at this point, if he's even still alive, because the crimes this country has perpetrated, (even the specific ones that trickle into our consciousness from the internet like the rapes both of Iraqi women and female soldiers or where the soldier threw the little dog off of the cliff while being filmed, after tormenting it) are, realisticially exponentially worse than what happened on 9/11 because of the numbers of crimes. We were terrorized and we became in turn far worse terrorizers. So what gratification is there in catching someone not very much unlike our own gov't. I think most Americans know this on some level at this point, whether they admit or not. I think alot of us feel like the girl on prom night who's been told she's loved only to be left with nothing but a soiled dress the next morning. It's so disgusting that this admin manipulated our legitmate grief to perpetrate the same kind of horrors.

    edit: just for clarity I opposed the Iraq war from day one.
    I agree with everything you wrote, except the part in bold. I don't think anybody will really ever consider catching Bin Ladin a footnote. 9/11 changed the course of American History, with things like the Patriot Act, and Bin Ladin is responsible for that. Regardless of the illegal war in Iraq, Bin Ladin was responsible for the worst act of terrorism on U.S. soil, and we're still seeing ripple effects from 9/11. Iraq is a part of that ripple effect, because Bush used 9/11 as an excuse to go to war.

    Now, I was against the war in Iraq from the beginning, too, but Bin Ladin and Iraq are two different things. Because we can't allow somebody that attacked us to stay on the loose, free to plan more attacks.

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