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Thread: Barack Obama calls right-to-lifers liars, they call him liar back

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Default Barack Obama calls right-to-lifers liars, they call him liar back

    WASHINGTON — When it comes to his abortion record in Illinois, Senator Obama is taking flak from all sides.

    First, Senator Clinton accused him of lacking political backbone in voting "present" on a bill that, according to abortion rights advocates, undermined the landmark Supreme Court ruling in Roe v. Wade. Now abortion foes are targeting him from the right over the same question: They say his opposition to legislation aimed at protecting infants born alive after a botched abortion demonstrates his extremism on the flash point social issue.

    The conservative attacks have intensified in recent days, with opponents of legalized abortion sending out missives against Mr. Obama and a YouTube video circulating that casts his position on abortion as more extreme than even the most stalwart supporters of a woman's right to choose, including Mrs. Clinton and Senator Kennedy of Massachusetts.

    The presumptive Democratic nominee responded sharply in an interview Saturday night with the Christian Broadcast Network, saying anti-abortion groups were "lying" about his record.

    "They have not been telling the truth," Mr. Obama said. "And I hate to say that people are lying, but here's a situation where folks are lying."

    He added that it was "ridiculous" to suggest he had ever supported withholding lifesaving treatment for an infant. "It defies common sense and it defies imagination, and for people to keep on pushing this is offensive," he said in the CBN interview.

    At issue is the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, a bill in the Illinois state Senate that sought to protect against bungled abortions by requiring that a fetus that survived an abortion be defined as a person. Fearing that the legislation could be interpreted more broadly to protect fetuses that were not yet viable — thus threatening Roe v. Wade, abortion rights advocates pushed for an amendment that explicitly limited the scope of the bill to infants "born alive."

    "Nothing in this section," the added sentence reads, "shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal right applicable to any member of the species homo sapiens at any point prior to being born alive as defined in this section." A federal version with that added clause passed Congress unanimously in 2002, with the support of Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Kennedy, among others. Mr. Obama said in 2004 and again on Saturday that he would have supported the federal version.

    During the Democratic primary, Mrs. Clinton's campaign criticized Mr. Obama for voting "present" — instead of "no" — on the "Born Alive" bill in Illinois, which did not contain a provision protecting the Roe v. Wade decision.

    The dispute flared again last week when a leading opponent of legalized abortion, the National Right to Life Committee, posted records from the Illinois Legislature showing that Mr. Obama, while chairman of a Senate committee, in 2003, voted against a "Born Alive" bill that contained nearly identical language to the federal bill that passed unanimously, including the provision limiting its scope.

    The group says the documents prove Mr. Obama misrepresented his record.

    Indeed, Mr. Obama appeared to misstate his position in the CBN interview on Saturday when he said the federal version he supported "was not the bill that was presented at the state level."

    His campaign yesterday acknowledged that he had voted against an identical bill in the state Senate, and a spokesman, Hari Sevugan, said the senator and other lawmakers had concerns that even as worded, the legislation could have undermined existing Illinois abortion law. Those concerns did not exist for the federal bill, because there is no federal abortion law.

    In 2005, the campaign noted, a "Born Alive" bill passed the Illinois Legislature after another clause had been added that explicitly stated that the legislation would have no effect on existing state abortion laws.

    Told of the campaign's explanation, the legislative director of the National Right to Life Committee, Douglas Johnson, was dubious. "These are newly manufactured and highly implausible excuses," he said. "There is no way that the bill would have had any effect on any method of abortion." Mr. Johnson said the version Mr. Obama voted down clearly applied only to fetuses that emerged from the womb alive.

    In addition to the outrage from abortion opponents, a five-minute YouTube video now making the rounds highlights Mr. Obama's opposition to the legislation. The clip, which has been viewed more than 230,000 times, features a testimonial from Jill Stanek, a former nurse who spearheaded the push for the bill in Illinois after witnessing a live infant discarded and left to die at the hospital where she worked. Ms. Stanek appeared at the White House ceremony in 2002 when President Bush signed the federal bill into law.

    The McCain campaign yesterday added its voice to the criticism of Mr. Obama. "Americans can differ on the issue of abortion, but Senator Obama's extreme record on this issue and his willingness to misrepresent that record should concern any American who believes that we should be working towards a society where there are fewer abortions, not more," a spokesman for Senator McCain, Brian Rogers, said.

    Obama Facing Attacks From All Sides Over Abortion Record - August 18, 2008 - The New York Sun
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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Ugh, these people are the uneducated slime of the earth. Piss off back to Wal-Mart or church bingo, or better yet, go sign up to fight in Iraq.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Obama has to watch his step here. He can't let himself get bogged down in a battle about abortion with the psycho right-to-lifers.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    ABC had this story back in January, and Tapper was right.....


    The Abortion Vote the GOP is Planning to Use to Bring Down Obama

    January 10, 2008 9:50 AM

    In her successful effort to defeat Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, in the New Hampshire primary by focusing on Democratic women voters, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, tried to paint him as insufficiently committed to abortion rights.

    Clinton's campaign described Obama as "unwilling to take a stance on choice."

    In a Granite State mailing that cited votes Obama cast in the Illinois state legislature, Clinton's campaign claimed, "Seven times he had the opportunity to stand up against Republican anti-choice legislation in the Illinois State Senate. Seven times he voted 'present' -- not 'yes' or 'no,' but 'present.'"

    One of these votes will assuredly come under further scrutiny should Obama win the Democratic nomination -- but from the opposite direction as the criticism from Clinton.

    Republican operatives have been examining Obama's record in Springfield, Illinois, and think they have caught Obama voting the wrong side of an abortion bill that will turn off the public "like partial birth abortion cubed," in the words of one GOP operative.

    The bill would have required medical care for babies born during unsuccessful abortions -- an issue no Democrat trying to win over independents and Republicans would want to spend any time discussing.

    The Republican party, of course, plans on attacking whoever wins the Democratic nomination. Clinton will be called partisan and shrill; Edwards a slick trial lawyer; Obama too inexperienced. Whoever wins will be painted as too liberal for America.

    But Obama's abortion vote, the GOP hopes, may prove to be the sort that Clinton alludes to when she suggests he has not been vetted, his having been blessed by the Gods of Fate during his 2004 US Senate campaign.

    In Obama's 2004 Senate race, both a multimillionaire Democratic primary opponent and a multimillionaire GOP general election opponent self-combusted in ugly divorce-related scandals and the latter's replacement was out-of-state ultra-conservative Republican Alan Keyes who was not difficult for Obama to defeat.

    Two days after the New Hampshire primary, Obama still has yet to have a negative TV ad run against him.

    The Illinois legislation would have mandated medical treatment to any child born as a result of a failed abortion. Clinton faults Obama for having voted "present" on the bill -- abortion-rights allies in Illinois say Obama was unquestionably on their side and voted present as part of a legislative strategy -- but on other occasions Obama voted against the bill.

    Republicans suspect Americans will find the vote indicative of out-of-the-mainstream liberal views.

    On March 27, 2001, the Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee passed out of committee legislation that would have banned any abortion procedure "that, in the medical judgment of the attending physician, has a reasonable likelihood of resulting in a live born child shall be undertaken" unless another doctor were present to assess the viability of the fetus and provide he or she with medical care. If a live child was born, the law would have mandated that the doctor provide medical care for the baby, which would be legally "recognized as a human person."

    Read it HERE.

    That bill passed out of committee by a vote of 7 to 4; Obama voted against it. (See the vote tally HERE).

    That same month, voting on a bill (read it HERE) that would "protect the life of a child born alive as the result of an induced labor abortion" on the floor of the Illinois Senate, Obama was one of 13 legislators to vote "present." The bill passed 33-6.

    Obama at the time said he took particular issue with the part of the bill that defined a "born alive" child as “every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.”

    "Whenever we define a pre-viable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or other elements of the Constitution," Obama said at the time, according to the Chicago Sun-Times, "we’re saying they are persons entitled to the kinds of protections provided to a child, a 9-month-old child delivered to term …That determination then essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place."

    In March 2002, a similar bill came before the Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee that would have required "a physician inducing an abortion that results in a live born child" to "provide for the soonest practicable attendance of a physician other than the physician performing or inducing the abortion to immediately assess the child's viability and provide medical care for the child."

    That bill (read it HERE) was passed out of the committee 6-3, with one "present" vote. Obama voted against it. (See the vote tally HERE.)

    That bill was never voted upon in the full Senate, but the next month -- in a 31-11 vote, with 10 "present" votes -- Obama voted against a bill that stated "all children who are born alive are entitled to equal protection under the law regardless of the circumstances surrounding the birth." (Read the bill HERE.)

    A federal version of the bill, after all, became law in August 2002. "This important legislation ensures that every infant born alive -- including an infant who survives an abortion procedure -- is considered a person under federal law," President George W. Bush said at the signing ceremony. "This reform was passed with the overwhelming support of both political parties, and it is about to become the law of the land."

    The National Abortion Rights Action League did not oppose the federal law; writing that the "committee and floor debate served to clarify the bill's intent and assure us that it is not targeted at Roe v. Wade or a woman's right to choose."

    Obama has said that had he been in the US Senate at that time, he would have voted for the federal "Born-Alive Infants Protection Act," despite his votes on a similar measure in the Illinois legislature in 2001 and 2002. Obama told the Chicago Tribune in 2004 the state measure "lacked the federal language clarifying that the act would not be used to undermine Roe vs. Wade."

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Obama told the Chicago Tribune in 2004 the state measure "lacked the federal language clarifying that the act would not be used to undermine Roe vs. Wade."
    Good, then he shouldn't have voted for it. Idiots.

    Still, the retard fundies will fuck up this election yet again. I wish someone would put them back in their cages where they belong.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    ^^ bald faced lie.....the state measure and federal measure were the same...
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    last i checked they were SIMILAR, but not the same. Shades count in legislation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Obama has to watch his step here. He can't let himself get bogged down in a battle about abortion with the psycho right-to-lifers.
    Why not? More than two thirds of the country supports some form of reproductive freedom. Let the fundamentalist idiots show themselves for who they are. It would mobilize the Democratic base and bring moderates to his side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by visitor42 View Post
    Why not? More than two thirds of the country supports some form of reproductive freedom. Let the fundamentalist idiots show themselves for who they are. It would mobilize the Democratic base and bring moderates to his side.
    The reason why I don't think Obama can let himself get bogged down in this is because the Republicans will try to turn abortion into a wedge issue like they did with gay marriage in 2004, and distract voters from the economy, the war, and the destruction left by the Bush presidency, which McCain would continue.

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    Elite Member tkdgirl's Avatar
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    How someone can preach hope and condone/support late term abortion- including no medicare coverage for a baby born as a result of a failed abortion- is beyond me.

    A government big enough to give you everything you want,
    is strong enough to take everything you have. ~Thomas Jefferson

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    It's the Economy stupid, not abortion, that will be the defining issue of campaign, the economy and oil.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    last i checked they were SIMILAR, but not the same. Shades count in legislation.

    there were 2 bills in the state legislature.

    One was different from the federal bill, and one was the same. He is lying about his vote on the one that was the same. He should just have said 'I voted what I believed', you made your vote, so own up to it.

    Me, I don't really care about this vote, I am pro choice. But a lot of people that are pro choice would oppose this. Partial birth abortion is a hot button here in the US, and this is more divisive than partial birth abortion. Way more hot button than gay marriage......people actually kill over abortion here.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


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    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Obama's falsehood
    Misrepresents his abortion actions

    For the first time in this presidential cycle, social issues such as abortion took center stage this past week, courtesy of the candidates' high-profile, back-to-back interviews at a mega-church last weekend.

    Yet the mainstream media only days later is starting to address what might be the biggest story in this frame: Barack Obama
    - whether knowingly or not - provided false information about a controversial abortion vote he made in the Illinois Senate in 2003.

    After his nationally televised interview with Pastor Rick Warren on Saturday night in Orange County, Calif., Mr. Obama sat down with Christian Broadcasting Network's David Brody and went on the attack against pro-life activists, whom he said were "lying" about his vote to kill a bill protecting babies born alive following botched abortions.

    At issue is an Illinois bill in 2003 called the Born Alive Infants Protection Act that Mr. Obama voted against, which was modeled on federal legislation enacted the previous year declaring that in failed abortions resulting in a live birth, the baby must be given normal medical treatment. This was in response to a gruesome practice whereby abortions involving induced labor were resulting in unintended live births - and those infants were simply being left to die. It had passed the U.S. Senate without any dissent.

    Mr. Obama contended that he "would have been completely in, fully in support of the federal bill that everybody supported," but that he voted against the 2003 Illinois bill because "that was not the bill that was presented at the state level." Except that it was.

    As it turns out - and as even Mr. Obama's campaign admitted Monday to the New York Sun - the National Right to Life Committee wasn't lying; Mr. Obama was.

    The specific difference cited by Mr. Obama in the CBN interview was that the Illinois bill didn't contain the federal legislation's language explicitly stating that it would not "undermine Roe vs. Wade." (This was not merely off-the-cuff, as the campaign had issued a written statement to CNN in June offering the same rationale.) Not only did the bill contain the exact provision from the federal bill, but Mr. Obama voted in favor of adding it as an amendment. After the state bill was changed to be almost identical to the unanimously passed federal law, Mr. Obama voted against it.

    CNN, to its credit, did report on Obama's Illinois actions before the Democrat's accusation that his critics were lying. The New York Times first reported on Mr. Obama's Illinois record two weeks ago - almost 900 words into a 1,400-word piece on page A16. In a page A18 story this Wednesday dedicated solely to the controversy, the Times' Larry Rohter carries Mr. Obama's water, stretching to offer excuses for his vote that even Mr. Obama did not suggest until after misstating his own record last weekend.

    The highest-profile mainstream-media piece to date ran this Wednesday in The Washington Post, a page A1 article titled, "Candidates' Abortion Views Not So Simple." In its reporting, however, The Post seemed to dismiss the significance of Mr. Obama's opposition to the 2003 Illinois legislation by referring to it as an "obscure law." The Post further presents as fact the Obama position that the Illinois bill Mr. Obama opposed was solely about "pre-viable" babies. The testimony of former nurse Jill Stanek, who witnessed babies surviving botched abortions at Christ Hospital just outside Chicago, discussed babies past 20 weeks, including into the third trimester - thus not "pre-viable."

    Though understanding the legislative process is not a common strength in political journalists, most of the reporters in question are smart enough to sift through the plentiful documentation of Mr. Obama's voting history on the Born Alive Infants Protection Act in Illinois at the Web site of the National Right to Life Committee. Further, they could even read the simple, yet thorough, narrative of National Review's David Freddoso, who has written two stories spelling out the timeline and Obama's actions along the way. (Some of the reporting is adapted from his new book, "The Case Against Barack Obama.") Mr. Obama's camp has shifted explanations this week, now claiming that the Democrat merely wanted a provision in the bill clarifying that it would not impact existing state laws. Yet as several pro-life activists have noted, Mr. Obama was the chairman of the legislature's health committee when the bill came up again in 2003 and easily could have offered such an amendment. He didn't.

    Regardless of the reasons for his vote, Mr. Obama cannot say that his critics are lying. He did oppose a bill virtually identical to the one unanimously passed in the U.S. Senate. And now, five years later, he might end up paying a political price for that decision.

    http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/21/obamas-falsehood/

    a lying politician...what is the world coming to?
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Almost identical.. virtually identical... why the gray area? what was the provision that led him not to vote for it?

    What was the lynchpin?
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