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Thread: 75 percent of Oklahoma high school students are idiots

  1. #76
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    katerpillar, have you ever been to the US? and specifically, to the south?
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  2. #77
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katerpillar View Post
    Then check, next time.

    ARGH! Seriously! January, that's a pathetic cop out if I've ever heard one. Going "people here on this board don't sincerely believe EVERY Christian or EVERY southerner is an idiot - just the majority" is basically just code for "yeah, they're prejudiced but don't even have the balls to admit it". People shouldn't even think like that. Instead of seeing something and thinking "Ha, dumbass Southerner!" or "Idiotic Christian!" they should just think that individual is a moron.

    Defining idividuals by the group they belong to is still generalising. It ultimately hurts the whole group too, including the "good ones". No one should ever have to feel embarrassed by association when they see someone who happens to share their religion or nationality, or whatever, do something prominently stupid/evil.

    That statement above was a bit tongue in cheek, hence the laughing emoticon afterwards. No, I'm just saying to pick your battles. As long as you know that YOU aren't a redneck or an idiot, then try to let it slide, and have some fun with it. I learned to develop a sense of humor instead of being offended, life is too short. The internet is always going to be like real life, some people who profess to be the most open-minded are often the first to make terrible generalizations, others are so rigid in their belief structure that they'll never change, etc. Just try not to take it personally, is all. I think the internet just gives people a sense of anonymity and they can say things they wouldn't say in real life, or be ruder regarding their own personal beliefs - I know its "not right" but it happens. There is a lot of irony on this board that I can chuckle about, specifically people who like to bitch about being persecuted as a minority while running down other minorities, or bitch about people being close-minded while trying to convince everyone else to think like them, and the like. You just have to develop a sense of humor and brush it off your shoulders - as long as you're comfortable in your own skin, it really shouldn't matter what someone else on a message board thinks of you.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  3. #78
    Elite Member Jezi's Avatar
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    wtf I can answer most of these questions and I'm not even american!

  4. #79
    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katerpillar View Post
    Then check, next time.

    ARGH! Seriously! January, that's a pathetic cop out if I've ever heard one. Going "people here on this board don't sincerely believe EVERY Christian or EVERY southerner is an idiot - just the majority" is basically just code for "yeah, they're prejudiced but don't even have the balls to admit it". People shouldn't even think like that. Instead of seeing something and thinking "Ha, dumbass Southerner!" or "Idiotic Christian!" they should just think that individual is a moron.

    Defining idividuals by the group they belong to is still generalising. It ultimately hurts the whole group too, including the "good ones". No one should ever have to feel embarrassed by association when they see someone who happens to share their religion or nationality, or whatever, do something prominently stupid/evil.
    Well written, Katerpiller. I also think January's response was a cop out, even if it was tongue in cheek. (Sorry January!) I'm not from the south and have not lived there, but I cringe every time I see yet another sweeping generalisation portraying them as mentally lacking. I don't for a second think that the majority of Christians from the south are stupid either. I've come across a few well-meaning Christians who I completely disagree with, but I'm not going to tar the majority of them with the same brush. I have spent some quality time in the southern states and the southerners I've met have been some of the warmest, most welcoming people on this planet. I just didn't see the stereotypical stupid southerner/stupid Christian during my time there.

    Perhaps some of these statistics have more to do with the socio-economic problems in the south. If you look at other areas of the US with similar socio-economic issues, then the statistics would probably be very similar.

  5. #80
    Elite Member katerpillar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Katerpillar, the South has earned its reputation. It's not just people in "the North" who talk derisively about the South. It's all over the country. Take a look at what Cali posted just above, there's plenty of Christians in Minnesota and Washington state that would never resort to that shit.
    I know that - it even has a reputation overseas. You needn't be American to be pretty well aware of the American social dynamic. You do kind of dominate the Western world, after all.

    Regardless, despite being well aware of the stereotype of the South - especially the deep South Bible belt parts - I wouldn't sweepingly call the South in its entirety "stupid", nor the people who live there. You sure there aren't fundies who'd pull that kind of shit in Minnesota? My experiences is that there are always a few people like that everywhere, but perhaps it's just that in some areas there are less of them so they're less obviously visible. Or maybe because they're not from a region with a reputation for Bible-bashing, the media doesn't pay them any attention by seeking them out and being all "LOL check out these freaks!"

    I know that in my city there's a fundie Christian "ministry" or whatever you'd call it which likes to argue that gays shouldn't be employed as teachers ever because they're apparently all paedophiles. But we're not in the South - we're not even in Queensland, which has kind of the same reputation in Australia that the South has over there.

    Wherever people are, there are also idiots.

    Btw, one of my close friends was originally born and bred in Tennessee and she's intelligent, liberal and atheist. So annoying... if I talk to her for too long I start saying "y'all".

    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    You just have to develop a sense of humor and brush it off your shoulders - as long as you're comfortable in your own skin, it really shouldn't matter what someone else on a message board thinks of you.
    Very true. But I dunno - my inner Don Quixote gets the better of me when I see negative stereotypes being perpetuated. I'm sure the last of my idealism will wither and die when I finish uni though.
    Last edited by katerpillar; September 25th, 2009 at 07:28 AM.

  6. #81
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katerpillar View Post
    I know that - it even has a reputation overseas. You needn't be American to be pretty well aware of the American social dynamic. You do kind of dominate the Western world, after all.

    Regardless, despite being well aware of the stereotype of the South - especially the deep South Bible belt parts - I wouldn't sweepingly call the South in its entirety "stupid", nor the people who live there. You sure there aren't fundies who'd pull that kind of shit in Minnesota? My experiences is that there are always a few people like that everywhere, but perhaps it's just that in some areas there are less of them so they're less obviously visible. Or maybe because they're not from a region with a reputation for Bible-bashing, the media doesn't pay them any attention by seeking them out and being all "LOL check out these freaks!"

    I know that in my city there's a fundie Christian "ministry" or whatever you'd call it which likes to argue that gays shouldn't be employed as teachers ever because they're apparently all paedophiles. But we're not in the South - we're not even in Queensland, which has kind of the same reputation in Australia that the South has over there.

    Wherever people are, there are also idiots.

    Btw, one of my close friends was originally born and bred in Tennessee and she's intelligent, liberal and atheist. So annoying... if I talk to her for too long I start saying "y'all".
    Yeah, I am fucking sure that the Minnesota school board wouldn't be doing that. It's a state that elected Jesse Ventura governor and Al Franken senator. While many people like to joke about how those two are known as celebrities, they were elected purely on their political positions. It's not like you can reverse the states and they'd get elected in Alabama or Texas. One of the reasons why Jesse Ventura remained living in Minnesota was because they fund special education well and his daughter was a special ed student. You clearly know so much about what makes each state and region unique.

    There are fundies everywhere. I'm well aware of this. There are fundie congregations in liberal, liberal Seattle. The difference is that they aren't allowed to institute a theocracy there.

    Like Sputnik asked, have you ever been to the US?

  7. #82
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    red state?

  8. #83
    Elite Member Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    This dispute seems to be in every other thread lately.
    Hello mother fucker! when you ask a question read also the answer instead of asking another question on an answer who already contain the answer of your next question!
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  9. #84
    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    I don't know how this devolved into a debate about ALL vs. NONE. I havent seen anyone in this thread say that EVERYONE in the South is stupid / uneducated / fundies etc. I certainly don't believe that.

    Quote Originally Posted by katerpillar View Post
    I know that in my city there's a fundie Christian "ministry" or whatever you'd call it which likes to argue that gays shouldn't be employed as teachers ever because they're apparently all paedophiles. But we're not in the South - we're not even in Queensland, which has kind of the same reputation in Australia that the South has over there.

    Wherever people are, there are also idiots.
    I don't know anything about the innerworkings of Queensland so I can't speak to that. But I can speak to the South- I was born and raised there. You have to look at the whole cloth to understand what's going on there. To paraphrase what I said in another thread: Its more about our current political climate. The Bush years got our country into this Us vs Them mentality, and the GOP basically responded by creating their own little bubble, especially in the South. All the 'Compassionate Conservatism' and Left Behind books have created this wide-spread belief, especially in the South, among the GOP and GOP Christians that we are nearing 'the end of times', the anti-Christ is coming, etc.

    Today, particularly in the South, a proper Republican can happily get all their partisan, biased news from Fox News, listen to Rush Limbaugh on the radio, and socialize with all their church friends who are also Republicans, without ever once getting exposed to some liberal or non-conservative views. It has become their reality and many of them don't even realize how sheltered they are. And that sort of self-isolation has create a climate where they really do believe that they are in the majority, and for the most part, they are correct. And as a result, they've been pushing through their pet issues and they have gone through for the most part without question.

    Look at the article I posted earlier: the state committee determining Texas' textbook standards is comprised of 10 Republicans and 5 Democrats. And in Texas, all of those individuals are going to be MUCH more conservative- our Republicans are probably THE most conservative in the entire nation.

    For instance, from TPM, check out who the Texas Legislature deemed 'experts' to guide this process:

    The group of six experts is "extremely influential" in the curriculum writing process, says Dan Quinn of the Texas Freedom Network, which closely tracks the activist board of education. And they can be broken into two groups: mainstream academics and right-wing ideologues.
    Take the Rev. Peter Marshall. His Peter Marshall Ministries -- whose Web site is, sad to say, down today -- seeks "to restore America to its Bible-based foundations through preaching, teaching, and writing on America's Christian heritage and on Christian discipleship and revival."

    Another board-designated "expert" who will likely speak is David Barton, founder and president of Wallbuilders, which is "dedicated to presenting America's forgotten history and heroes, with an emphasis on the moral, religious, and constitutional foundation on which America was built." Barton's books include America's Godly Heritage and The Role of Pastors & Christians in Civil Government (Wallbuilders Press).

  10. #85
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    cutting funds from education whether basic or higher-learning pisses me off to no end F U Govenator of California!

  11. #86
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    It wouldn't have come to that in California if Californians hadn't decided to fuck up their tax code thirty years ago.

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    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    I went through the south in the 60's. We drove from Winnipeg to New Orleans. I was 12. It left a terrible taste in my mouth that time has never removed. Unfair, I suppose. The south has produced some our most intelligent liberal politicians. Jimmy Carter, Lyndon Johnson, Bill Clinton and even that cad John Edwards. To me these are not the majority of southerners though. There are more uneducated people in the south than any other part of the United States. We have a lot of uneducated immigrants here in California, but we do our best to educate people. The south doesn't seem to try or care. Flame away.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  13. #88
    Elite Member katerpillar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Like Sputnik asked, have you ever been to the US?
    Nope, not yet.

    Lemme guess... "you've never been here, therefore you can't possibly know a thing, blah blah etc"? Nice try, but irrelevant. Nothing will convince me that generalising about an entire region, religion or population is anthing but douchey. Who is doing it to whom and why is not the point.

  14. #89
    Elite Member LaFolie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nana55 View Post
    This is sad and ridiculous. I blame everyone including the kids. Parents should be teaching their children from birth. They need to talk to them, take them to museums, have them watch educational shows on T.V. Teachers and schools need to insist on excellence and expect it from the students. Children has to take responsibility for trying to learn. Some just sit in class and let it float through their head and let it float right out. It would be nice if all teachers were entertainers but they aren't. Teachers need to step up their game though. Everyone needs to take some blame.
    Difficult to do when the powers that be ask us to step it down and not traumatise the chirrens...
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  15. #90
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    Generally speaking, it is not good to generalize.

    Statistics about education, access to health care, fitness level of citizens, etc. do not speak well for many southern states (e.g., Kentucky, Mississippi). Sure, there are smart, well-educated people living in those states, but the majority do not seem to notice or care that they are behind other states in many ways. A friend of mine moved from New England to Kentucky and she has some scary stories.

    Some homeschooled kids are getting a great education with a lot more individualized attention than the average public school kids. But for many parents, it's way to make sure their kids aren't exposed to ideas they don't approve of.

    Being a Christian doesn't make people ignorant, being homeschooled doesn't make stupid, living in the South doesn't make you stupid, either. It's a lot more complicated than that.

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