Bush threatens to veto torture bill

[buttmunch]

By Brian Knowlton International Herald Tribune
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2005


WASHINGTON The White House repeated an earlier veto threat Thursday after the Senate voted by an overwhelming bipartisan margin for a measure to prevent mistreatment of prisoners held by the U.S. military.

The 90-to-9 vote to ban "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment" of anyone in U.S. government custody was one of the sharpest political rebukes in Washington of a system under which abuses occurred in Iraq and Afghanistan and at the Guantánamo naval base in Cuba.

The abuses, documented in photographs of the humiliation of prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq by their U.S. jailers, provoked furious reactions in the Muslim world, brought angry condemnations around the world and reportedly fueled acts of violence in Iraq.

The vote late Wednesday came on an amendment to a $440 billion defense budget bill. Forty-six Republicans, including the majority leader, Bill Frist of Tennessee, joined 43 Democrats and an independent, reflecting unusually scant Senate support for the White House argument that the measure would unduly constrict Americans who are leading the difficult fight against terrorism.

The Senate passed the measure by a margin well beyond the two-thirds required to override a presidential veto. But the White House, while reiterating the veto threat Thursday, appeared sanguine about the matter.

"The House legislation doesn't include that language," noted Scott McClellan, the White House spokesman. Suggesting that such a provision seemed unlikely to survive the conferences in which the Senate and House iron out legislative differences, McClellan said, "We will continue working with Congress to address this issue."

The amendment would require troops conducting interrogations to limit themselves to a list of techniques authorized in a new army field manual.

The unexpectedly one-sided vote followed an impassioned plea from a Republican senator, John McCain of Arizona, who, as a young navy aviator was shot down over North Vietnam and then tortured by his captors.

McCain argued that Americans taken prisoner in war would suffer if American jailors did not maintain internationally accepted standards. He had the backing of some former high-ranking military officers, including Colin Powell and John Shalikashvili, both former heads of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

McCain, the measure's main sponsor, argued: "We need a clear, consistent standard." He added: "Many of my comrades were subjected to very cruel, very inhumane and degrading treatment, a few of them even unto death. But every one of us - every single one of us - knew and took great strength from the belief that we were different from our enemies."


McCain to keep up pressure

Eric Schmitt of The New York Times reported earlier:

Senator Lamar Alexander, a Tennessee Republican, questioned why the White House would oppose a measure that codifies military procedures and policies and reaffirms a ban against torturing detainees. "It is time for Congress, which represents the people, to clarify and set the rules for detention and interrogation of our enemies," he said.

Opposing the effort, Senator Ted Stevens, Republican of Alaska, said that requiring American troops to follow procedures in the army manual was not practical in the current war environment. "The techniques vary upon the circumstances and the physical location of people involved," Stevens said.

Armed with the strong Senate vote, however, McCain is expected to keep the pressure on in the public arena and when the spending bill goes to a conference committee.

McCain and Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina offered the same proposal during the summer as the Senate worked on a bill setting Pentagon policy. But Frist scuttled that legislation, in part because of White House opposition.

In July, the White House dispatched Vice President Dick Cheney to Capitol Hill to lobby McCain, Graham and Senator John Warner of Virginia personally.

This week, White House officials not only pressed McCain to modify his measure, but approached sympathetic Senate Republicans to work against the amendment.

The vote drew applause from human rights organizations. "Senator McCain's amendments are a key step toward the restoration of the military's traditional prohibition against torture and inhumane treatment," said Leonard Rubenstein, executive director of Physicians for Human Rights.

Ok, I want to hear from the Bushies on this one. Does anyone actually think it's ok to torture?

[Grimmlok]

Oh big fucking shock. I told you this would happen.

SIEG HEIL, you fascist fuck.

[Grimmlok]

Keep their family safe..i bet if it was their family getting tortured they'd have something to say about it.

Can't think beyond their own noses.

[buttmunch]

I do want to hear from the Bushies. I want to hear what sort of convoluted thinking they'll come up with to excuse this sort of thing. I have to say I admire McCain for pushing this so hard. And it's very difficult to argue with a man who underwent years of torture himself, and so knows what he speaks of.

[Grimmlok]

I think only 1 Bushie has managed to find their way here, but certainly not the more... hmm...fanatical ones.

[buttmunch]

Maybe they're a bit slow on the uptake and are still trying to figure out that they need to re-register.

[Grimmlok]

probably trying to figure out what the AOL icon on their desktop is for.

[buttmunch]

Here's an idea: Torture someone high up who can tell us how this numbnut actually stole the election. Exactly which palms were greased?

[Grimmlok]

All of them.

It wouldn't surprise me if the whole ballet of the election was in fact nothing but a giant scripted play with both sides playing their part, after negotiations behind the scenes dividing up the pie. The american population would be completely duped into thinking they were actually participating in a democratic process.

[buttmunch]

Christ, that sounds like a Ben Affleck flick!

[Grimmlok]

I was thinking more David Fincher, a la "The Game"

[buttmunch]

Ahhhh...nice one.

[Glasgow53]

Wasn't McCain actually a prisoner of war, or am I thinking of someone else? Why would you oppose a bill that is made to stop torture? Are we becoming worse than animals?

[Grimmlok]

^^ um... duh. :/

[buttmunch]

Yes he was a prisoner of war. He was a guest at the infamous Hanoi Hilton for, I believe, five long, torturous years. Ever notice that gimpy arm? Compliments of the hotel concierge.