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Thread: John McCain thinks unconstitutional warrantless searches are great

  1. #1
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Thumbs down John McCain thinks unconstitutional warrantless searches are great

    In John McCain's widely panned speech on Tuesday, the GOP nominee ranted about the charge that he's running for Bush's third term. Pretty clear this is one argument that gets under his very thin skin:


    You will hear from my opponent's campaign in every speech, every interview, every press release that I'm running for President Bush's third term. You will hear every policy of the president described as the Bush-McCain policy. Why does Senator Obama believe it's so important to repeat that idea over and over again?


    The reason why Obama will repeats that idea over and over is because it's the truth. Not that complicated really. Today's Today's NY Times provides yet another vivid example of a Bush-McCain policy:


    A top adviser to Senator John McCain says Mr. McCain believes that President Bush’s program of wiretapping without warrants was lawful, a position that appears to bring him into closer alignment with the sweeping theories of executive authority pushed by the Bush administration legal team.

    In a letter posted online by National Review this week, the adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, said Mr. McCain believed that the Constitution gave Mr. Bush the power to authorize the National Security Agency to monitor Americans’ international phone calls and e-mail without warrants, despite a 1978 federal statute that required court oversight of surveillance.



    So, yes. Obama should repeat over and over and over and over that McCain is running for Bush's third term. Because, it is the truth.

    AMERICAblog: A great nation deserves the truth
    Government that has no oversight and a population with no legal recourse is not democracy.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member tkdgirl's Avatar
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    Just to be clear, we don't live in a democracy. We live in a Representative Republic.

    Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less from a RINO like McCain.

    But Grimm, you're once again relying on the opinion of a blogger who, like you, thinks McCain is a Bush third term.

    It won't be even close. Yet, with all the facts posted here, and all the voting records of McCain's in the past eight years, you still hold onto the false R behind McCain's name.

    A government big enough to give you everything you want,
    is strong enough to take everything you have. ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Ok.

    You need to realize that bloggers PULL ARTICLES FROM NEWSPAPERS OR OTHER REPORTS. He's not just writing things himself.

    That's why it's in italics.

    That's why it says NY TIMES.
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    Elite Member tkdgirl's Avatar
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    The NYT. Why, that's a real reputable and unbiased paper. *rollseyes*

    A government big enough to give you everything you want,
    is strong enough to take everything you have. ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, the issue was you thought he was just writing things himself. He isn't.

    At any rate, the advisor IS McCains', the letter obviously exists, and the context of the quote in the post is basic and as far as I can tell not biased either way.

    Let's try to keep a clear head.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkdgirl View Post
    Just to be clear, we don't live in a democracy. We live in a Representative Republic.

    That's one of my peeves....You know how many Americans don't know that? .....argh.....
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


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    Elite Member tkdgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    That's one of my peeves....You know how many Americans don't know that? .....argh.....
    It is astonishing.

    A government big enough to give you everything you want,
    is strong enough to take everything you have. ~Thomas Jefferson

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    We're actually a Constitutional representative republic. And the Constitution says something about "unreasonable searches and seizures" not being allowed.

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    Elite Member NicoleWasHere's Avatar
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    At the risk of sounding extremely ignorant, what does it mean to live in a Representative Republic? I think I'm missing something, here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleWasHere View Post
    At the risk of sounding extremely ignorant, what does it mean to live in a Representative Republic? I think I'm missing something, here.
    Basically it means not much. It's something that some conservatives like to tout whenever someone brings up democracy or civil liberties being violated. It's a distinction without difference.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleWasHere View Post
    At the risk of sounding extremely ignorant, what does it mean to live in a Representative Republic? I think I'm missing something, here.
    Nicole, asking a question never is ignorant, it's a sign that you're looking to learn

    There is a large difference between a Democracy and a Representative Republic.....They are two different forms of government

    In a Democracy the people would have direct control of the government by a vote on everything....all laws, bills, spending, etc....would have to pass with the majority of the population

    In a Representative Republic, the people elect representatives (congressmen, senators), and they vote for us in the decisions...

    The US is a Representative Republic....
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; June 7th, 2008 at 06:41 PM.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Nicole, asking a question never is ignorant, it's a sign that you're looking to learn

    There is a large difference between a Democracy and a Representative Republic.....They are two different forms of government

    In a Democracy the people would have direct control of the government by a vote on everything....all laws, bills, spending, etc....would have to pass with the majority of the population

    In a Representative Republic, the people elect representatives (congressmen, senators), and they vote for us in the decisions...

    The US is a Representative Republic....
    That's true, but it doesn't make a difference for the topic. We still have a Constitution, and the warrantless searches run afoul of the spirit and probably the letter of it.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by visitor42 View Post
    That's true, but it doesn't make a difference for the topic. We still have a Constitution, and the warrantless searches run afoul of the spirit and probably the letter of it.

    Yes, but my comment had nothing to do with the topic. Tkdgirl pointed out the US is not a democracy, I agreed, and Nicole asked a question about the difference...

    The Constitution was not what we three were discussing....we were talking about the US system of government, which so many people incorrectly refer to as a democracy....


    Incidently, regarding the Patriot Act and wire tapping . ......Both of the candidates voted for the renewal of the patriot act in 2006......

    The only senators that voted against it were:
    Akaka (D-HI)
    Bingaman (D-NM)
    Byrd (D-WV)
    Feingold (D-WI)
    Harkin (D-IA)
    Jeffords (I-VT)
    Leahy (D-VT)
    Levin (D-MI)
    Murray (D-WA)
    Wyden (D-OR)


    So as to the OP, perhaps Obama better not try to nail McCain on this one.......It would be better to stick to an issue where they actually voted differently
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; June 8th, 2008 at 08:27 AM.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Nicole, asking a question never is ignorant, it's a sign that you're looking to learn

    There is a large difference between a Democracy and a Representative Republic.....They are two different forms of government

    In a Democracy the people would have direct control of the government by a vote on everything....all laws, bills, spending, etc....would have to pass with the majority of the population

    In a Representative Republic, the people elect representatives (congressmen, senators), and they vote for us in the decisions...

    The US is a Representative Republic....
    both systems are considered democractic. it's just that in the first case you mention in your post, it's what most refer to as a 'direct democracy', and the other is an indirect or representative democracy.

    no country is a pure democracy. the closest you might get is switzerland and even they are representative as well.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    both systems are considered democractic. it's just that in the first case you mention in your post, it's what most refer to as a 'direct democracy', and the other is an indirect or representative democracy.

    no country is a pure democracy. the closest you might get is switzerland and even they are representative as well.
    I don't think a direct democracy has ever existed....I'll have to check into it, but none come to mind....

    The problem with a Representative Republic, is that we can only find someone who's thinking is close to ours, and vote for them. I have yet to see a politician vote exactly as I would on all the issues.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

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