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Thread: Super Tuesday 3?

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Default Super Tuesday 3?

    While the Obama campaign stresses math and Clinton momentum post-Ohio/Texas -- and some journalists can't resist predicting who will win, should win, should quit -- the fact is that many voters haven't yet effectively spoken. Including all Democrats in your two states because of your controversy with the DNC.

    So as Obama now leads 51%-49% in votes cast and 52% to 48% in presumed delegates, I have a suggestion that could help launch one into a commanding position as we approach the Denver Convention: your two states should legislate a new primary day and it should be April 22, the day of the scheduled Pennsylvania primary.

    Then we would have a final Super Tuesday involving some 5 million voters and 518 delegates. And the Democrat who wins a majority of the votes and delegates in these three states -- all of which would be in play in a competitive general election -- would have real and important momentum with undecided superdelegates. Not quite winner-take-all but close to winning the fifth set in the Wimbledon final.

    Could either Obama or Clinton object? Clinton can't seriously argue that the delegates in your states should be seated based on earlier contests that the candidates agreed shouldn't count.

    The Obama campaign can't seriously argue that your states shouldn't be seated at the Convention and shouldn't count in the closest nomination battle in a century. Nor can it seriously contend that existing rules should be in effect altered to disallow a superdelegate -- who's not a Martian but a governor, senator, or congressman -- from voting for that Democrat who s/he thinks would be the strongest nominee and best president.

    It's up to you. If you establish two do-overs and time them to Pennsylvania -- I'm sure Gov. Rendell won't mind sharing the pressure and spotlight -- you'll create a new and final Super Tuesday III that could make history. Then your primaries wouldn't have been early and influential but late and pivotal. Not a bad ending for Michigan and Florida -- and Democrats.

    Gov. Dean?


    Mark Green: Super Tuesday III: Dear Governors Crist & Granholm - Politics on The Huffington Post

    I think this is a reasonable and fair to both sides solution. It isn't the voters in these states fault that the State Dem Parties did this. This way, their voices can truly be heard.
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; March 5th, 2008 at 02:34 PM.
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    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Interesting concept but is it feasible to do that in 6 weeks? What do the party leaders have to have in place for a primary? Is there enough time to allow people to register to vote if they now want to do so? Not sure that 4/22 will work.

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    I think this may have to happen in July to be fair to both sides.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    All of this crap about having a do-over in Florida & Michigan is all to just help Hillary out. Bottom line, Florida and Michigan got stripped of their delegates because they DEFIED party rules and held their primaries early. That was the ruling of the DNC. If they were so concerned about their delegates then they shouldn't have violated the rules, in the first place.

    And considering that one of the people who made that ruling is currently working on Hillary's campaign that just smacks of cheating. What's the point of having rules if people can break them and then you can just pretend they didn't by having a do-over? This is politics, not a game of tag on the playground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    All of this crap about having a do-over in Florida & Michigan is all to just help Hillary out. Bottom line, Florida and Michigan got stripped of their delegates because they DEFIED party rules and held their primaries early. That was the ruling of the DNC. If they were so concerned about their delegates then they shouldn't have violated the rules, in the first place.

    And considering that one of the people who made that ruling is currently working on Hillary's campaign that just smacks of cheating. What's the point of having rules if people can break them and then you can just pretend they didn't by having a do-over? This is politics, not a game of tag on the playground.
    I agree this is BS as an Obama backer, but the only other option is going to a Republican dominated Supreme Court and letting them decide. I say we set it up late in July right before the convention as 'overtime' so no one can bitch after having two months to prepare after June 7 in Puerto Rico
    Last edited by ingi; March 5th, 2008 at 06:29 PM.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ingi View Post
    I agree this is BS as an Obama backer, but the only other option is going to a Republican dominated Supreme Court and letting them decide. I say we set it up late in July right before the convention as 'overtime' so no one can bitch after having two months to prepare after Juune 7 in Puerto Rico
    Why would it have to go to the Supreme Court? Florida and Michigan have only been stripped of their delegates for the convention, it's not like they're being stripped of their right to vote in November.

    And, true, if this drags out then whoever gets the nomination won't have much time to prepare. But here's the downside of having a do-over in Florida and Michigan. If they do it, and Hillary gets those delegates, then it's going to come off like cheating, and it's going to split the party. And if Obama wins, then Hillary supporters will think it was cheating since Hillary had intially won them, and it's going to split the party. And I've already heard a lot of Obama supporters say that they won't vote for Hillary if they give her those delegates because it would be cheating. And I'm sure a lot of Hillary supporters would feel the same, if Obama won the do-over vote.

    And I go back to my original point, if Florida and Michigan were so concerned about their delegates then they shouldn't have defied the DNC, to begin with. I mean, I feel bad for those voters, but to start upending the process now would just create too many headaches in the long haul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post

    And I go back to my original point, if Florida and Michigan were so concerned about their delegates then they shouldn't have defied the DNC, to begin with. I mean, I feel bad for those voters, but to start upending the process now would just create too many headaches in the long haul.
    I just can't take the Republicans stealing ANOTHER election from right under our noses. Lets give everyone 2 months to prepare and let the voters make the right decision! Its may be possible Obama may get enough delegates to put him over the top. (since 200 are already pledged to both sides roughly) The Clintons have been moving the goalposts from Day 1 in New Hampshire, why don't we get a shot to do it now?

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ingi View Post
    I just can't take the Republicans stealing ANOTHER election from right under our noses. Lets give everyone 2 months to prepare and let the voters make the right decision! Its may be possible Obama may get enough delegates to put him over the top. (since 200 are already pledged to both sides roughly) The Clintons have been moving the goalposts from Day 1 in New Hampshire, why don't we get a shot to do it now?
    Oh, I understand what you're saying about the Clintons and moving the goal posts. Believe me, I understand and I agree. But the way I see it, neither Hillary or Obama are going to reach the 2,025 delegates they need, since they keep splitting the delegate count.

    Now, if they do a do-over and split Florida and Michigan, then that's still not going to solve anything, since they'll both want to keep moving forward. Plus, I think a do-over sets a dangerous precedent. Because once you start doing it, then what's to stop states in November from saying that they want a do-over because they don't like which candidate won or because they think some Florida 2000 cheating went on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Oh, I understand what you're saying about the Clintons and moving the goal posts. Believe me, I understand and I agree. But the way I see it, neither Hillary or Obama are going to reach the 2,025 delegates they need, since they keep splitting the delegate count.

    Now, if they do a do-over and split Florida and Michigan, then that's still not going to solve anything, since they'll both want to keep moving forward. Plus, I think a do-over sets a dangerous precedent.
    And if we get even closer than 160 delgates apart to the end, that brings John Edwards pledged supporters into the fray on the 1st ballot. Would JE want a spot on the ticket to decide the nominee?

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ingi View Post
    And if we get even closer than 160 delgates apart to the end, that brings John Edwards pledged delegates into the fray on the 1st ballot. Would JE want a spot on the ticket to decide the nominee?
    That's a good point. But I know Edwards has said in the past that he's not interested in being VP. But that may have changed. I think Edwards, like some of the superdelegates, is waiting to see who ends up with the nomination before he offers his support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    That's a good point. But I know Edwards has said in the past that he's not interested in being VP. But that may have changed. I think Edwards, like some of the superdelegates, is waiting to see who ends up with the nomination before he offers his support.
    Edwards could very well get the nomination if he holds off on endorsing a candidate until August. The Clinton team will argue that 1st ballot votes are non-binding, but they will lose! JE endorses Obama on the first roll call=game over

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ingi View Post
    Edwards could very well get the nomination if he holds off on endorsing a candidate until August. The Clinton team will argue that 1st ballot votes are non-binding, but they will lose! JE endorses Obama on the first roll call=game over
    Edwards dropped out, so he can't get the nomination. But whoever Edwards decides to back will definitely get a major shot in the arm, be it Obama or Hillary. Especially Obama if he still has a significant delegate lead.

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    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Someone who knows the Edwards told me he will not even consider VP because his wife is much sicker than they let on. I hope that is not true. If it is true I hope they spend as much time together as possible.

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    Elite Member Mr. Authority's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    Someone who knows the Edwards told me he will not even consider VP because his wife is much sicker than they let on. I hope that is not true. If it is true I hope they spend as much time together as possible.
    Yeah I heard that as well. I hope Elizabeth Edwards overcomes whatever sickness she has. "(

    Anyway I don't know how Michigan or Florida is going to re-do this whole delegate thing,. either way it's going to be a mess for both Obama and Clinton.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Only pledged delegates have to vote on the first ballot. Superdelegates can sit out the first round ballot if they choose, look at the voting, and vote based on that.

    In 1924 the Dem convention went to more than 100 ballots, and that was long before Superdelegates
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