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Thread: Texas debate: Hillary Clinton accuses Barack Obama of plagiarism

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Default Texas debate: Hillary Clinton accuses Barack Obama of plagiarism

    Clinton accuses Obama of plagiarism
    By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent 1 minute ago


    Hillary Rodham Clinton accused presidential rival Barack Obama of political plagiarism Thursday night, but drew boos from a Democratic debate audience when she ridiculed him as the candidate of "change you can Xerox."
    Obama dismissed the charge out of hand, then turned the jeers to applause when he countered, "What we shouldn't be spending time doing is tearing each other down. We should be spending time lifting the country up."
    The exchange marked an unusually pointed moment in an otherwise civil encounter in the days before March 4 primaries in Texas and Ohio contests that even some of Clinton's supporters say she must win to sustain her campaign for the White House.
    The former first lady has lost 11 straight primaries and caucuses, and trails her rival in convention delegates. Obama has won a pair of big union endorsements in the past two days.
    In a university auditorium in the heart of Texas, the two rivals agreed that high-tech surveillance measures are preferable to construction of a fence to curtail illegal immigration.
    They disagreed on the proper response to a change in government in Cuba in the wake of Fidel Castro's resignation. Clinton said she would refuse to sit down with incoming President Raul Castro until he implements political and economic reforms. Obama said he would meet "without preconditions," but added the U.S. agenda for such a session would include human rights in the Communist island nation.
    They also sparred frequently about health care, a core issue of the campaign.
    Clinton said repeatedly that Obama's plan would leave 15 million Americans uncovered.
    But he, in turn, accused the former first lady of mishandling the issue by working in secrecy when her husband was in the White House.
    "I'm going to do things differently," he said. "We can have great plans, but if we don't change how the politics is working in Washington, then neither of our plans are going to happen."
    Clinton was combative and complimentary by turns, and reflected on her well-known personal struggles in the debate's final moments.
    "Everyone here knows I've lived through some crises and some challenging moments in my life," she said a thinly veiled but clear reference to her husband's affair with Monica Lewinsky and subsequent impeachment. But she added that nothing she had been through matched the everyday struggles of voters.
    Then, offering unprompted praise to her rival, the one-time front-runner said, "No matter what happens in this contest, I am honored to be here with Barack Obama."
    Both candidates were plainly popular with the debate audience. During one break someone in the crowd shouted "Si se puede," Spanish for Obama's trademark phrase, "Yes we can."
    Clinton largely sidestepped a question about so-called superdelegates, members of Congress, governors and party leaders who were not picked in primaries and caucuses. She said the issue would sort itself out, and "we'll have a unified Democratic party" for the fall campaign.
    But Obama, who has won more primaries and caucuses said the contests must "count for something ... that the will of the voters ... is what ultimately will determine who our next nominee is going to be."
    Clinton went into the debate needing a change in the course of the campaign, and waited patiently for an opening to try to diminish her rival, seated inches away on the stage. "I think you can tell from the first 45 minutes Senator Obama and I have a lot in common," she said.

    Barely pausing for breath, she went on to say there were differences.
    First, she said she had seen a supporter of Obama interviewed on television recently, and unable to name a single accomplishment the Illinois senator had on his record.
    "Words are important and words matter but actions speak louder than words," she said.
    Obama agreed with that, then noted that Clinton lately had been urging voters to turn against him by saying, "let's get real."
    "And the implication is that the people who've been voting for me or are involved in my campaign are somehow delusional," Obama said.
    Clinton also raised Obama's use in his campaign speeches of words first uttered by his friend, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick.
    "If your candidacy is going to be about words then they should be your own words," she said. "...Lifting whole passages from someone else's speeches is not change you can believe in, it's change you can Xerox."
    The debate audience booed.
    Obama said the entire controversy was evidence of a "silly season" that the public finds dispiriting. Besides, he said of his speeches at one point, "I've got to admit, some of them are pretty good."
    The two rivals sat next to one another in swivel chairs in a University of Texas auditorium for the 90-minute debate, one in a dwindling number of opportunities for the former first lady to chart a new course in the presidential race.
    She has lost 11 straight primaries and caucuses to Obama including an overseas competition for support among Americans living aboard and has fallen behind in the chase for the number of delegates needed to become the presidential nominee.
    Obama's strong showing has made him the man to beat in a historic struggle between a black man and a white woman, and even former President Bill Clinton has said his wife must win both Ohio and Texas early next month to preserve her candidacy. New polls show Texas a dead heat, and give Clinton a lead in Ohio, but far smaller than the one she held in recent weeks.
    Rhode Island and Vermont also vote on March 4, but offer far fewer delegates and have drawn less attention.
    The encounter was the 19th in an episodic series of debates and forums, a run that has ranged from highly civilized to hotly confrontational.
    The last time the two met, in Los Angeles, they sat side by side and disagreed politely. But in an earlier encounter last month, in Myrtle Beach, S.C., each accused the other of repeatedly and deliberately distorting the truth for political gain in a highly personal, finger-wagging showdown.
    In The Associated Press' delegate count Thursday, Obama had 1,358.5 to 1,264 for Clinton. It takes 2,025 delegates to claim the nomination at this summer's convention.
    In a further sign of his growing strength, Obama won the endorsement during the day of the Change to Win labor federation, which claims 6 million members. The Teamsters union announced its support for Obama on Wednesday. The debate was sponsored by CNN, Univision and the Texas Democratic Party.


    The 'xerox comment' was a cheap shot by Hillary, and it blew up in her face. But I think Obama did a great job at deflecting it, and by taking the high road and NOT reminding Hillary that she's borrowed from his speeches, too.

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    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    She went negative at the wrong time. She was grasping for straws to get her footing, it didn't land. Then, she laid out the I was wronged and had it hard when my husband cheated on me, that helped? Did she see the nails and hammer coming when she delivered her last lines of the night. Who knows, the Clinton's will never go quietly into the good night!!
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    Elite Member msdeb's Avatar
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    i'll give credit, the negative shit took a while to break out.
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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    ^^Yeah, I was impressed that it wasn't negative right from the start.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSDiva View Post
    She went negative at the wrong time. She was grasping for straws to get her footing, it didn't land. Then, she laid out the I was wronged and had it hard when my husband cheated on me, that helped? Did she see the nails and hammer coming when she delivered her last lines of the night. Who knows, the Clinton's will never go quietly into the good night!!
    That was the wrong thing to bring up, especially since she stayed with Bill after the fact.

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    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    ^^Yeah, I was impressed that it wasn't negative right from the start.



    That was the wrong thing to bring up, especially since she stayed with Bill after the fact.
    When it came on I told my friend this was going to be very ugly, that she was going to the gutter, fast and stay there. Fooled the hell out of me!! I was impressed, but at the same time annoyed that she chose something so trivial to go low ball with.

    I am an open minded left leaning below the Mason Dixon line woman, and I would've left his ass before I knew there was a stain on her nasty ass dress and that he screwed her with a Cigar. However, the only way I'd stay if I needed him to flourish politically!! Then every chance I got I would've smacked him on the head every time I saw him..asking him why didn't you make her swallow!!
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    I don''t know if she really fucked the board though. Maybe just put the tip in. -Mrs. Dark

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    Elite Member NicoleWasHere's Avatar
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    Is anyone actually "original" these days? With speech writing, or script writing, or video game premises, or... anything?

    True, words copied from another speech to your own aren't probably seen as very inspirational. But still. When Obama speaks, it's almost like he could say anything, and I'd listen, because he speaks confidently and with eloquence, anyway. With Clinton, I just hear the Charlie Brown teacher... nothing but a bunch of blah with some crocodile tears thrown in for effect. Even with a carbon copy of a speech, Obama will give me more hope than any of the candidates. He wants change for this country, just like anyone else. McCain wants to continue on with the war, Clinton wants to be president just because she thinks she's entitled to it because of her husband... What's so great about that?

    In all honesty, I bet Clinton's secretly upset that she didn't think to plagiarise the speech, first.

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    Elite Member yanna's Avatar
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    I just don't get it. If all Obama can do is take other people's words and make them sound nice he should have gotten into acting, not politics. I hope I'm wrong about him because I want the US to do better after W (though let's face it, anyone would be better than the chimp).

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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanna View Post
    I just don't get it. If all Obama can do is take other people's words and make them sound nice he should have gotten into acting, not politics. I hope I'm wrong about him because I want the US to do better after W (though let's face it, anyone would be better than the chimp).
    same here.
    so far, i haven't heard or read anything from obama that makes me think the man has any actual, concrete ideas. so far it's all charm and charisma and big smiles but absolutely no substance behind it.
    and hilary's 'xerox' comment was pretty funny... cheap shot, sure, but funny nonetheless
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    so far it's all charm and charisma and big smiles but absolutely no substance behind it.

    That's America for you. They vote like politics is American Idol.

    But they get what they deserve, like 8 years of Bush- because they felt he was the kind of guy they could have a beer with. That's what happenes when you vote personality over substance.
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    Elite Member yanna's Avatar
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    LOL, sputnik, I'm thinking that Hillary is doing great with non-Americans. Too bad we can't vote.

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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^^
    they should let us.
    god knows that's one government whose actions affect the whole world.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    Silver Member LastLook's Avatar
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    Totally agree about the 'acting' thing, yanna! Americans apparently want a motivational speaker, and it always ends up being a popularity contest based on whatever the public is feeding on. How does the candidate make me feel? Am I being entertained? Are there soothing words being said that make it easier for me to brush off doubts? (You know, leaving out the kinda stuff that is the responsibility of being a critically-thinking citizen---the "boring" stuff).

    I'm sure interviewing someone for the job of chief surgeon at a hospital isn't very exciting, but you sure as hell wouldn't pick someone based on their charisma or ability to make you feel warm and fuzzy. But in politics people do this, and might think "Oh but that's different, people aren't gonna die because of their mistakes!" All we need to do is look at history to see how false that idea is.

    Please, let's not make another W-esque mistake! Think objectively and critically before you vote.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    ^^ Bravo!!!
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

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    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post

    The 'xerox comment' was a cheap shot by Hillary, and it blew up in her face. But I think Obama did a great job at deflecting it, and by taking the high road and NOT reminding Hillary that she's borrowed from his speeches, too.
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    Elite Member cmmdee's Avatar
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    I just dont get why Texas is such a big focus. The man has won the last ten states, so why does ONE have such a huge impact? He has won all the last ones?
    And I have a crush on him. I hate having a crush on a politician but when I see him I get giddy and think he has really nice teeth. Shh. Tell no one. LOL. I think he's rexy-sexy.

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