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Thread: You are not entitled to privacy: Bush intel official

  1. #1
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Angry You are not entitled to privacy: Bush intel official

    WASHINGTON - A top intelligence official says it is time people in the United States changed their definition of privacy.

    Privacy no longer can mean anonymity, says Donald Kerr, the principal deputy director of national intelligence. Instead, it should mean that government and businesses properly safeguards people's private communications and financial information.

    Kerr's comments come as Congress is taking a second look at the Foreign Surveillance Intelligence Act.

    Lawmakers hastily changed the 1978 law last summer to allow the government to eavesdrop inside the United States without court permission, so long as one end of the conversation was reasonably believed to be located outside the U.S.

    The original law required a court order for any surveillance conducted on U.S. soil, to protect Americans' privacy. The White House argued that the law was obstructing intelligence gathering.

    The most contentious issue in the new legislation is whether to shield telecommunications companies from civil lawsuits for allegedly giving the government access to people's private e-mails and phone calls without a court order between 2001 and 2007.

    Some lawmakers, including members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, appear reluctant to grant immunity. Suits might be the only way to determine how far the government has burrowed into people's privacy without court permission.

    The committee is expected to decide this week whether its version of the bill will protect telecommunications companies.

    The central witness in a California lawsuit against AT&T says the government is vacuuming up billions of e-mails and phone calls as they pass through an AT&T switching station in San Francisco.

    Mark Klein, a retired AT&T technician, helped connect a device in 2003 that he says diverted and copied onto a government supercomputer every call, e-mail, and Internet site access on AT&T lines.

    (This version CORRECTS Kerr's title to `the principal deputy director' instead of 'a deputy director.')

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  2. #2
    Elite Member nwgirl's Avatar
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    Yeah, that pesky privacy. Gets in the way of everything, doesn't it? Next thing you know they'll be telling us we need to redefine our idea of civil liberties cause those are just too darned broad. Oh...wait.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."

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    Elite Member Mr. Authority's Avatar
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    And the sad thing is most people aren't even aware that their privacy is being taken away cuz they aren't paying attention to what's going on. Makes me sick the govt. is taken advantage of it's people.

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    Silver Member shoegal's Avatar
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    What can we do?

    If we make noise, are we then labled terrorists with something to hide?

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    Elite Member darksithbunny's Avatar
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    It's really messed up that it's coming to this. Not just with this but with EVERYTHING. Gov is so involved with everything in our lives all in the name of liberty. I am sick and tired of being told that I am not smart enough to live my life without intrusions from people that I didn't even vote for.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Authority View Post
    And the sad thing is most people aren't even aware that their privacy is being taken away cuz they aren't paying attention to what's going on. Makes me sick the govt. is taken advantage of it's people.
    It makes me MORE sick that the populace are letting its government take advantage of it.

    The people get the government they deserve.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Silver Member joy0923's Avatar
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    1978 law last summer to allow the government to eavesdrop inside the United States without court permission, so long as one end of the conversation was reasonably believed to be located outside the U.S.

    Meaning Africa and the Middle East..

    The phone calls they listen into are mostly stolen cell phone numbers.
    The time limit is very short and the numbers are sold on the black market for lots of money..
    The terrorist plot to blow up aircraft flying from the United Kingdom to the United States was foiled by listening in on stolen numbers..





  8. #8
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yeah, but the fact that they can listen to whomever they want (even domestically now) without a warrant is too much.

    They can even get retro-active warrants AFTER they listen to the call but now they don't even want that. They want to not bother to have any kind of papertrail or judicial oversight.

    You have no recourse, no rights, nothing.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member NicoleWasHere's Avatar
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    So how long before Bush's goonies have to watch us shower?

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    Elite Member Gen X EJC's Avatar
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    well, thanks to those heat sensing devices the police can already pretty much see you in the shower.

    Oh, sorry, I was trying to make myself feel BETTER, not worse...
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    Elite Member southernbelle's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't care if they want to listen to my phone conversations with my mom, my friends, or whoever I may be talking to. I don't have anything to hide. The only people who should be concerned about this are people who are
    a) involved in highly suspicious or illegal activities
    b) stupid enough to talk about them on the phone

    The government is in a lose/lose situation. If they listen in on conversations to pinpoint terrorist activity, people bitch about their privacy being violated. If they place privacy before national security and we get attacked, people bitch about how they didn't do enough to prevent it.

    Invading people's privacy is probably THE most effective way to identify individuals with terrorist ties and to uncover terrorist plots.

    Spying has been a government strategy for years. They aren't doing this to hurt law-abiding American citizens. They're doing it to protect you.

    The "right to privacy" that so many people like to refer to does not exist anywhere in the United States Constitution. Privacy is a privilege that I feel is trumped by an imminent threat to national security. I support the government's right to intervene in matters of national and personal security over a terrorist's "right" to plan and discuss ways to kill American citizens.

  12. #12
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    You support them having the right to invade your home and do a search, to listen in on your calls, read your e-mails, follow your internet surfing trail, all without ANY kind of legal oversight from the Judicial branch (no warrants), the right to simply abscond you on the street, deport you to a country to be tortured or similarely just lock you up with no access to legal counsel or anything resembling a fair trial?

    That's what they can do now.

    It dosnt MATTER if you don't have anything they would be interested in. What matters is that you're perfectly willing to let them have this power where you have no way of stopping it should they decide to use it against you or anybody else for whatever reason, or if they make a mistake. They make mistakes all the time. Look up 'Maher Arar'.

    That is WRONG. That's fascism. That is exactly what the Nazis did, in the name of 'national security'.

    You know what's funny? They CAN get warrants for all this stuff if they wanted. They can even get them AFTER they tap your phones or destroy your house searching for something.

    They just don't WANT to because it gives the population the power, through the courts, to seek an explanation or even challenge them.

    THEY DO NOT WANT THAT. They do not want the Judicial branch, the branch put in place BY THE FOUNDING FATHERS AS A CHECK AGAINST DICTATORIAL BEHAVIOR, to watch or have any say in what they do. They don't HAVE to demand that people surrender rights for safety, they just prefer having a free hand to do as they please.

    You tell me how any of that is RIGHT. I dare you. How is it the land of free and home of the brave if you are NOT free and you surrender any rights for the vague illusion of 'safety' ? You might as well just go live in some despotic, middle eastern country where you have no rights. It's the same damn thing.

    I still can't believe people have forgotten that these exact same tactics have been used over and over again throughout history to disastrous results.

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." - Benjamin Franklin
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  13. #13
    Hit By Ban Bus! Lily's Avatar
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    Well, let's hack into his personal computer and see what he's hiding and then tell him there's no such thing as privacy. And then let's follow him into the bathroom. And then let's.....

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