Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Bush, senators push immigration overhaul

  1. #1
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    you already know.
    Posts
    44,442

    Exclamation Bush, senators push immigration overhaul

    Bush, senators push immigration overhaul
    By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, Associated Press Writer

    Bush, senators push immigration overhaul - Yahoo! News


    The White House and key senators in both parties announced agreement Thursday on an immigration overhaul that would grant quick legal status to millions of illegal immigrants already in the U.S. It would also fortify the border.

    President Bush said the proposal would "help enforce our borders but equally importantly, it'll treat people with respect."

    "This is a bill where people who live here in our country will be treated without amnesty but without animosity," Bush said.

    The compromise came after weeks of closed-door negotiations that brought the most liberal Democrats and the most conservative Republicans on immigration issues together with Bush's Cabinet officers to produce a highly complex measure that carries heavy political consequences. It still faces a long legislative struggle and its passage by the Senate or House is far from assured.

    The plan would create a temporary worker program to bring new arrivals to the U.S and a separate program to cover agricultural workers. Skills and education level would for the first time be weighted more heavily than family connections in deciding whether immigrants should get permanent legal status. New high-tech employment verification measures would make sure that workers are here legally.

    Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, his party's lead negotiator on the deal, hailed it as "the best possible chance we will have in years to secure our borders and bring millions of people out of the shadows and into the sunshine of America."

    Anticipating criticism from conservatives, Sen. Arlen Specter (news, bio, voting record), R-Pa., said, "It is not amnesty. This will restore the rule of law."

    The accord sets the stage for what promises to be a bruising battle next week in the Senate.

    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (news, bio, voting record), D-Nev., called the proposal a "starting point" for that debate and said the measure needs improvement.

    "I have serious concerns about some aspects of this proposal, including the structure of the temporary worker program and undue limitations on family immigration," Reid said in a statement.

    The breakthrough came when negotiators struck a bargain on a so-called "point system" that prioritizes immigrants' education and skill level over family connections in deciding how to award green cards.

    The immigration issue also divides both parties in the House, which isn't expected to act unless the Senate passes a bill first.

    The proposed agreement would allow illegal immigrants to come forward and obtain a "Z visa" and after paying fees and a $5,000 fine ultimately get on track for permanent residency, which could take between eight and 13 years. Heads of household would have to return to their home countries first.

    They could come forward right away to claim a probationary card that would let them live and work legally in the U.S., but could not begin the path to permanent residency or citizenship until border security improvements and the high-tech worker identification program were completed.

    A new temporary guest worker program would also have to wait until those so-called "triggers" had been activated.

    Those workers would have to return home after work stints of two years, with little opportunity to gain permanent legal status or ever become U.S. citizens. They could renew their guest worker visas twice, but would be required to leave for a year in between each time.

    Democrats had pressed instead for guest workers to be permitted to stay and work indefinitely in the U.S.

    In perhaps the most hotly debated change, the proposed plan would shift from an immigration system primarily weighted toward family ties toward one with preferences for people with advanced degrees and sophisticated skills. Republicans have long sought such revisions, which they say are needed to end "chain migration" that harms the economy, while some Democrats and liberal groups say it's an unfair system that rips families apart.

    Family connections alone would no longer be enough to qualify for a green card except for spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens.

    New limits would apply to U.S. citizens seeking to bring foreign-born parents into the country.
    WoW just wow; this is earth-shattering news. we'll see if it goes anywhere though.........

    IMO I agree with the skills-level based qualifications rather than the traditional "who you know" type shit thats all too common and gives false promises to many.

  2. #2
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    You wanna treat people with respect, THEN DONT VETO THE HATE CRIME BILL COMING YOUR WAY, fucknuts!
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  3. #3
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    you already know.
    Posts
    44,442

    Default

    yeah thats actually hard for me to believe. their priorities are kinda whacked arent they.

  4. #4
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    you already know.
    Posts
    44,442

    Lightbulb Illegal immigrants question Senate deal

    Illegal immigrants question Senate deal

    By PETER PRENGAMAN, Associated Press Writer
    1 hour, 1 minute ago



    David Guerra wants to be legal, but he says the path to citizenship offered by the Senate on Thursday would be too risky and too expensive, and could end up driving him deeper into the shadows.

    Guerra's wife and children in El Salvador depend on the $300 he sends home each month from his job as a day laborer. Key provisions of the legislation would require him to return home to apply for residency, pay a $5,000 fine and spend thousands more in application fees.

    That would be disastrous for his family, he said, and, worse, he's not sure he can trust U.S. immigration authorities who have been rounding up and deporting his fellow immigrants for months.

    "If I go home, who is going to guarantee that I'll be let back in?" said the 44-year-old who lays bricks, clears weeds and does landscaping.

    Across the nation, illegal immigrants, many of whom toil in dirty, low-paying jobs, sharply criticized the Senate's immigration overhaul package as overly burdensome and impractical.

    "Where would I find $5,000? In two years, I don't get $5,000," said Daniel Carrillo Maldonado, an illegal immigrant who was looking for construction work outside a Home Depot in Phoenix.

    The agreement between the Senate and White House would allow illegal immigrants to obtain a special visa. After paying fees and the fine, they could get on a path to permanent residency that could take eight to 13 years. Heads of household would have to return to their home countries first.

    Some illegal immigrants said returning home presented another major hurdle: Applying for residency at U.S. embassies in their home countries.

    Amy Ndour, a 23-year-old illegal immigrant from Senegal who lives in New York, said she would be willing to pay the $5,000 fine, but not return home because her family there depends on what she earns as a hair braider.

    "I'm helping myself" here, she said. "I'm helping people there too."

    Karina Corona, 32, an illegal immigrant from San Diego, works seven days a week at two jobs — one at a delicatessen and another as a seamstress. She said $5,000 is a small price to pay.

    "Compared with the better jobs you can get, it's nothing. It's well worth it," she said.

    Carlos Velazquez, a 40-year-old illegal immigrant in Los Angeles, said he applied twice for visas in Honduras, and both times had to pay several bribes to local embassy staff.

    "Only with money will the monkey dance," said Velazquez, using an idiomatic expression to refer to bribes.

    The Senate agreement includes a so-called "point system," which for the first time would prioritize immigrants' education and skill level over family connections in deciding how to award green cards that allow permanent residency.

    Family connections alone would no longer be enough to qualify for a green card — except for spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens. And new limits would apply to U.S. citizens seeking to bring foreign-born parents into the country.

    Many illegal immigrants said they had little incentive to apply for residency because the process was long and did not offer much hope of bringing their families.

    "If I'll never be able to bring my family, why should I apply?" said Jose Monson, a 33-year-old illegal immigrant from Guatemala who has lived in Los Angeles for four years. "I prefer to just stay here illegally."

    "If I get deported and need to cross the border again, that's not a problem," he said.

    Several unions, which have many immigrants in their ranks, took issue with the creation of a new temporary guest worker program.

    New workers would have to return home after two-year stints, with little opportunity to gain permanent legal status or ever become U.S. citizens. They could renew their guest worker visas twice, but would be required to leave for a year between each stint.

    "Temporary workers depress wages and create a second-class work force that is disconnected from the U.S. mainstream and not equal," said Eliseo Medina, executive vice president of the Service Employees International Union.

    Pablo Alvarado, director of the National Day Labor Organizing Network, said the guest worker component would likely exacerbate rhetoric between anti-illegal immigration groups and immigration groups. Groups such as the Minutemen regularly stage protests in front of day labor centers.

    "You will still have the anti-immigrant organizations blaming immigrants for depressed wages," Alvarado said.

    Still, the agreement gave some hope.

    In Houston, Marco Antonio Rodiguez, said he would be happy with a permit that would allow him to work legally and return to Mexico twice a year to see his wife and three children.

    "Immigration reform would benefit us so much, both ourselves and families," said Rodriguez, a 48-year-old illegal immigrant who does odd jobs. "We want the law to be approved. I'm praying to God that it passes."

    Pascual Bravo, an illegal immigrant who works at a construction company in Middletown, N.Y., was also eager to achieve legal status.

    Bravo, 49, last crossed the border in Arizona eight years ago, paying a smuggler $1,800. "I miss my country," he said.

    ___

    Associated Press writers Deepti Hajela in New York, Elliot Spagat in San Diego, Terry Tang in Phoenix and Monica Rhor in Houston contributed to this report.
    WoW that was a fast response by illegal immigrants! but seriously, i guess that part about having to go back to your country does suck...I think the more determined someone is to be here though the more they should get to. And I always go back to how we're all immigrants to this land (except the Native Americans) and how everyone should get their shot in life to a brighter future as long as they dont hurt anyone in the process.

  5. #5
    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sleepy night night land
    Posts
    22,885

    Default

    This is one issue where there is really no way to make both sides happy. I just want there to be some resolution so they can move on from yet another polarizing issue.

  6. #6
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    dreaming about being on a lake in Ontario
    Posts
    4,085

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AliceInWonderland View Post
    WoW that was a fast response by illegal immigrants! but seriously, i guess that part about having to go back to your country does suck...I think the more determined someone is to be here though the more they should get to. And I always go back to how we're all immigrants to this land (except the Native Americans) and how everyone should get their shot in life to a brighter future as long as they dont hurt anyone in the process.
    Wow I find that an odd opinion coming from someone who lives in L.A. They do hurt people. Schools are overcrowded with not enough of a tax base to run them, hospitals are overun with illegals having babies. I'm on the board of Children's hospital in San Diego. Almost 80 to 90% of the paitients are hispanics. Some legal many many who are not. Who foots the bill, the taxpayers. I also think if we raised the minimum wage more people would do some of these jobs. Like busboys, maids etc. But come on who can support anyone on the piddly wage they get. We need to pay a decent wage then more legal workers will do the jobs and supply and demand will take care of it.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  7. #7
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    you already know.
    Posts
    44,442

    Default

    ^ yeah but a lot of white trash citizens and others do the same thing and cause the same burdens on society all across the country and have been for generations. I'm kind of a "watch my own back" sort of a person and there are ways to get out of paying so much taxes believe me I know, so there are options for us citizens who do pay our own health insurance and all that other stuff. And I would personally rather educated "their" children then leave them uneducated b/c that would just lead to more of a need for social services for them if they're uneducated and working at a fast food restaurant the rest of their lives. I'm just saying also that I haven't seen truly good data regarding this issue, I'm pretty sure that the best data I've seen makes clear that its balanced out pretty much in the end. That yes, they tax the system just like everyone else, but they also provide a lot to society as well. I would just like to state that 98% of the illegal immigrants I know do pay their taxes - they try hard not to mess up and get "caught" and you do that by doing everything proper with the SSN you've obtained or you risk getting caught more.


    its a tough subject and I still don't know why Bush is so adament about giving illegals a chance. what deal(s) does he have with the Mexican govt. (where most our immigrants come from nowadays) for instance?! Are drug cartels involved? Oil?! why is he really doing this?! I know its not outta the goodness of his heart so I just need to figure that one out and my opinion on the subject may change ..........

  8. #8
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    If I was up your ass you'd know where I am!
    Posts
    7,751

    Default

    And I always go back to how we're all immigrants to this land (except the Native Americans) and how everyone should get their shot in life to a brighter future as long as they dont hurt anyone in the process.
    That makes for a nice postcard and all, but really, it is irrelevant that once we are immigrants except for the Native Americans. This isn't the 1500's and this isn't the same world. The reality is that with all of the people in the world we need more rules and boundaries. The reality is that countries are seperate entities, it's not all one great big open world. Compare the population of this land then vs. now. It's like comparing apples to oranges. The reality is that people have always fought over land and whoever won got to keep it and call it theirs. That's not just true for the USA, it's happened everywhere and still happens in much of the world. It's the dark side of human nature. Unfortunately, most of the hispanics coming illegaly from Mexico are uneducated (not to mention health problems coming from living in poverty and lacking medical care) and will place more of a burden on the tax payers than people coming here from India legally. If I were a legal immigrant I'd be shouting against this preferential treatment from the rooftops.

  9. #9
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    you already know.
    Posts
    44,442

    Default

    ^ yeah and they're uneducated and poor b/c of the corruption of their govt. and the USA and the world's complacency on that issue. The Mex. govt. needs to be pushed into reform before any slowing of ppl fleeing that country is going to happen A)
    and B) I dont see how the 1500 vs. 2000 has any relevency. Did ppl in 1500 use the year 1000 as a point of reference? The one thing I would like urged onto new immigrants to this country from anywhere is to assimiliate into american culture. The italians did it, the irish did it and thats the key to success and celebration.

  10. #10
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    539

    Default

    Just to throw in my two cents. I am an immigrant from Mexico. My parents made the decision to move here when I was 3, for better education, life and opportunity. We did not cross the border, like most "illegal" immigrants we overstayed our visas. We never, ever went on any public assistance of any kind. I am college educated, paid for with my dime and speak flawless English. It is far too easy to say "illegal" immigrants are the problem. Don't forget that we are a capitalistic society and economy. We need low wage workers to survive. Also, most "illegal" immigrants do work and pay social security they will never benefit from. It is estimated that they pump in billions into social security. Don't be so quick to judge.
    Last edited by Lucky32; May 18th, 2007 at 04:14 PM.

  11. #11
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    you already know.
    Posts
    44,442

    Default

    yeah or too quick to blame! like i've said before the key to your own happiness and succes is staring back at you in the mirror.

  12. #12
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    you already know.
    Posts
    44,442

    Default

    another thing is why dont we blame all the obese and smokers who create their own problems and ours by upping our insurance premiums and such b/c of their disgusting choices and health problems they incur.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Implants or push up?
    By khaebs in forum Breast Augmentation
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: June 5th, 2007, 07:42 AM
  2. Phelps clan does their evil schtick at funeral for Senators' KIA nephew
    By Grimmlok in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: August 7th, 2006, 05:57 PM
  3. Replies: 12
    Last Post: February 12th, 2006, 05:56 PM
  4. Bush pushing immigration plan
    By buttmunch in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: November 28th, 2005, 04:34 PM
  5. Senators rap Supreme Court choice
    By DisruptiveHair in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: October 20th, 2005, 10:18 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •