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Thread: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff calls homosexuality "immoral"

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    Elite Member Laurent's Avatar
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    Default Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff calls homosexuality "immoral"

    Top general calls homosexuality 'immoral'

    By Aamer Madhani
    Tribune national correspondent
    Published March 12, 2007, 5:28 PM CDT


    Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Monday that he supports the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" ban on gays serving in the military because homosexuality is "immoral" and on par with having an extramarital affair.

    Addressing the controversial policy as part of a wide-ranging interview with the Tribune in Chicago, Pace said the military should not "condone" immoral behavior by allowing gay soldiers to serve openly. He said his views were based on his "upbringing," in which certain types of conduct were thought to be immoral.

    "I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts...," Pace said, while also calling it immoral for military members to commit adultery with another service member's spouse. "I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is okay to be immoral in anyway.

    In the interview, Pace also said that a provision in the House Democrats' proposal to wind down the war could hamper President Bush's planned troop "surge" in Iraq by creating gaps in troop levels.

    The military's current policy on homosexuals is based on legislation signed into law by President Clinton in 1994 which states that gays and lesbians may serve only if they keep their sexual orientation private. Commanders may not ask, and gay service members may not tell.

    Supporters argue it is necessary to maintain the cohesion of U.S. troops, but critics condemn it as discriminatory. The policy has come into question once again as the Pentagon and Congress grapple with a military stretched thin by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Pace did not address concerns raised by a 2005 government audit that showed some 10,000 troops have been discharged because of the policy. Among those discharged were more than 322 linguists, including 54 Arabic specialists, according to the Government Accountability Office report.

    "The real question is: what is moral about discharging qualified linguists during a time of war simply for being gay or lesbian?" said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights advocacy group. "Our military needs the best qualified men and women who are willing to serve in the military, protect our freedoms and preserve our American values of equality."

    About 23 percent of troops say they know for sure that someone in their unit is gay or lesbian, according to a Zogby International poll of troops who served in Iraq and Afghanistan that was published in December. About 55 percent of the troops who know a gay peer said the presence of gays or lesbians in their unit is well known by others.

    Last month, Rep. Martin Meehan (D-Mass.) revived the debate by introducing legislation to reverse the military's ban on openly serving homosexuals. Meehan's proposal has 106 sponsors, including six Republicans. Meehan and gay rights organizations have expressed hope of reversing the policy now that Democrats are in charge of the House and Senate.

    The issue is also starting to percolate in the 2008 presidential campaign. Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.), a longtime foe of the policy her husband signed into law, has stated that it should repealed. Sen. Sam Brownback ( R-Kan.), says a repeal would be ill-advised.

    amadhani@tribune.com

    Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune
    Chicago Tribune news | Registration
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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    "I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts...," Pace said, while also calling it immoral for military members to commit adultery with another service member's spouse. "I do not believe the United States is well served by a policy that says it is okay to be immoral in anyway.
    Well then you might want to look into that whole torture thing, as well as the lying thing, the war crimes, and lastly, the abuse suffered by your own soldiers at the hands of their peers.

    Seems a bit more important than a couple guys boning, doesn't it?

    Fucking retard. Suck my ass.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Well then you might want to look into that whole torture thing, as well as the lying thing, the war crimes, and lastly, the abuse suffered by your own soldiers at the hands of their peers.

    Seems a bit more important than a couple guys boning, doesn't it?

    Fucking retard. Suck my ass.
    Sucking your ass, by his definition, would be immoral

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Good, i hope his head explodes when he does it
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    so idiotic!!!!!!!!

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    Well today he basically said that he regretted airing his personal opinion on the matter, that he still supports the don't ask don't tell thingie. So he still believes that homosexuality is immoral, but that he shouldn't have made it so public.

    Only such a powerful military general can get away with saying such things. A politician who said such things would've been held accountable, but the military structure is another thing altogether, and I think he knew he could get away with saying whatever he felt like.

    Well, for the most part. If he had said something very racist and insulting towards a person of color, shyte would definitely have hit the fan and this would have been a lot worse for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by celeb_2006 View Post
    So he still believes that homosexuality is immoral, but that he shouldn't have made it so public.
    how are people in power allowed to think like this..it is rather distressing i must say

    i could type a lot more but i will refrain from adding to the negativity.

    but i DON'T like this fellow
    Last edited by xoxo; March 14th, 2007 at 05:14 PM.

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    "I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts...," Pace said
    Okay then, I believe politicians are immoral and we should not condone them. Does that mean all politicians should be thrown from office? After all if I believe it must be true; if they can use that excuse so can I

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    The ol I regret what I said.

    Too fucking late, bubba.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Born In A Brothel View Post
    The ol I regret what I said.

    Too fucking late, bubba.
    Actually he doesn't regret what he said in the traditional sense of what you and I would consider regret. If I said something stupid, foot in mouth style, and I regretted it, my regret would be based on the fact that it would be out of my character and my true beliefs to have said something so stupid and offensive.

    This general's only "regret" is that he said it publicly. That's it. He still believes homosexuality is immoral. It's like david duke regretting saying something racist only in the fact that it was done publicly.

    I still stand by my belief that if this general uttered something racially insensitive, the shyte would have hit the fan. Hell if he had said something that could be deemed offensive against muslims or islam, there would be more furor and outrage in the general public than we see now. Sad.

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    Elite Member Laurent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celeb_2006 View Post
    I still stand by my belief that if this general uttered something racially insensitive, the shyte would have hit the fan. Hell if he had said something that could be deemed offensive against muslims or islam, there would be more furor and outrage in the general public than we see now. Sad.
    I agree with you.

    This comment got the lead-in on The Today Show Monday morning and about 3 minutes during the show and that was it.

    Completely it.

    If this had been a racial slur, I venture to guess the better part of the first hour would've been dedicated to it and who was calling for his resignation.
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    Elite Member Charmed Hour's Avatar
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    It's just his opinion, which he is entitled to right? I certainly don't agree with it, but he still has the right to say it. Plenty others must agree with him, in some sense, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is the official policy of the U.S military.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yeah, and racist assholes are entitled to theirs.

    Are they right?

    Of course not, they're fucking idiots.

    This douchebag fits right in.

    "Don't ask, Don't tell" is only in place because religious right assholes use it as a cudgel, when the original measure was to stop gay witch-hunts in the military.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member Charmed Hour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Yeah, and racist assholes are entitled to theirs.

    Are they right?

    Of course not, they're fucking idiots.

    This douchebag fits right in.

    "Don't ask, Don't tell" is only in place because religious right assholes use it as a cudgel, when the original measure was to stop gay witch-hunts in the military.

    You know what? I totally agree with you, 100%. However, I don't think this guy is much different than many in the general population in his personal beliefs.

    I have plenty of friends that have no issue with abortion, interracial dating, and other things that others perceive as "immoral" But bring up homosexuality and they literally scare the beejesus out me with their fervor of how it's "immoral and against God's law". Some of the same people climbed up on the table in the clinic and had an abortion. But two people who love each other are immoral and going to burn. Humans, by nature, are just a bunch of big old hypocrites.

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    Brownback supports Pace:

    Brownback supports Pace's remark on gays - Yahoo! News

    Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback (news, bio, voting record) is backing the Pentagon's top general over his remarks that homosexual acts are immoral. The Kansas senator planned to send a letter on Thursday to President Bush supporting Marine Gen. Peter Pace, who earlier this week likened homosexuality to adultery and said the military should not condone it by allowing gay personnel to serve openly.
    The chairman of the Joint Chiefs also said in an interview with the Chicago Tribune: "I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. I do not believe the United States is well-served by a policy that says it is OK to be immoral in any way."
    Lawmakers of both parties criticized the remarks, but Brownback's letter called the criticism "both unfair and unfortunate."
    "We should not expect someone as qualified, accomplished and articulate as General Pace to lack personal views on important moral issues," Brownback said. "In fact, we should expect that anyone entrusted with such great responsibility will have strong moral views."
    Asked whether he agreed with Pace's comments, Brownback said: "I do not believe being a homosexual is immoral, but I do believe homosexual acts are. I'm a Catholic and the church has clear teachings on this."
    Democratic candidates Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record) initially tried to sidestep the issue when asked about it this week, but both sought to clarify their opposition to Pace's comments on Thursday.
    Obama did not directly answer on Wednesday when asked if same-sex relationships were immoral, Newsday reported. Obama issued a statement on Thursday, saying, "I do not agree with General Pace that homosexuality is immoral. Attempts to divide people like this have consumed too much of our politics over the past six years."
    Clinton told ABC News Wednesday that it's for "others to conclude" whether homosexuality is immoral. On Thursday, she put out a statement saying that she'd heard from gay friends who said her answer sounded evasive.
    "I should have echoed my colleague Senator John Warner (news, bio, voting record)'s statement forcefully stating that homosexuality is not immoral because that is what I believe," her statement said.

    Meanwhile, Democratic hopeful Bill Richardson called Pace's remarks "unfortunate" and said the Bush administration should reject them, adding that he would push Congress to repeal military's "don't ask, don't tell policy" in which gay service members are required to keep their sexual orientation private.
    "People should not be judged based on their sexual orientation," the New Mexico Governor said in Santa Fe. "Throughout my entire career I have fought for equal rights and against discrimination of any kind."
    While there is no indication that Pace's job is in jeopardy, Brownback's letter to Bush said "personal moral beliefs" should not disqualify anyone from a position of leadership in the U.S. military.
    "General Pace's recent remarks do not deserve the criticism they have received," the letter said. "In fact, we applaud General Pace for maintaining a personal commitment to moral principles."
    Pace said he supports "don't ask, don't tell," something Brownback said is "an appropriate policy."
    Brownback, a favorite of the religious right, has been a prominent opponent of gay marriage.
    Brownback spokesman Brian Hart said the senator was working Thursday to get other lawmakers to sign his letter. Hart said Brownback's office would not disclose who has signed on to the letter until there is "a final count."
    On his campaign bus in Iowa on Thursday, Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., declined to comment when asked whether he agreed with Gen. Peter Pace's comment that homosexuality was immoral. He said he still backs the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. "It's working."



    Hmm, pretty much everyone but Bill Richardson are quite the professonal politician and a bunch of cowards.

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