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Thread: Want to leave the US? After Jan 4, you'll need 'clearance' to do so.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Exclamation Want to leave the US? After Jan 4, you'll need 'clearance' to do so.

    I guess you're ALL on no-fly lists unless Big Brother says otherwise. Nice.

    Sieg Heil.

    October 26, 2006

    Forget no-fly lists. If Uncle Sam gets its way, beginning on Jan. 14,
    2007, we'll all be on no-fly lists, unless the government gives us
    permission to leave-or re-enter-the United States.

    The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (HSA) has proposed that all
    airlines, cruise lines-even fishing boats-be required to obtain
    clearance for each passenger they propose taking into or out of the
    United States.

    It doesn't matter if you have a U.S. Passport - a "travel document"
    that now, absent a court order to the contrary, gives you a virtually
    unqualified right to enter or leave the United States, any time you
    want. When the DHS system comes into effect next January, if the
    agency says "no" to a clearance request, or doesn't answer the
    request at all, you won't be permitted to enter-or leave-the United
    States.

    Consider what might happen if you're a U.S. passport holder on
    assignment in a country like Saudi Arabia. Your visa is about to
    expire, so you board your flight back to the United States. But wait!
    You can't get on, because you don't have permission from the HSA.
    Saudi immigration officials are on hand to escort you to a squalid
    detention center, where you and others who are now effectively
    "stateless persons" are detained, potentially indefinitely, until
    their immigration status is sorted out.

    Why might the HSA deny you permission to leave-or enter-the United
    States? No one knows, because the entire clearance procedure would be
    an administrative determination made secretly, with no right of
    appeal. Naturally, the decision would be made without a warrant,
    without probable cause and without even any particular degree of
    suspicion. Basically, if the HSA decides it doesn't like you, you're
    a prisoner - either outside, or inside, the United States, whether or
    not you hold a U.S. passport.

    The U.S. Supreme Court has long recognized there is a constitutional
    right to travel internationally. Indeed, it has declared that the
    right to travel is "a virtually unconditional personal right." The
    United States has also signed treaties guaranteeing "freedom of
    travel." So if these regulations do go into effect, you can expect a
    lengthy court battle, both nationally and internationally.

    Think this can't happen? Think again. It's ALREADY happening. Earlier
    this year, HSA forbade airlines from transporting an 18-year-old a
    native-born U.S. citizen, back to the United States. The prohibition
    lasted nearly six months until it was finally lifted a few weeks ago.
    Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are two countries in recent history
    that didn't allow their citizens to travel abroad without permission.
    If these regulations go into effect, you can add the United States to
    this list.

    For more information on this proposed regulation, see http://
    hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf.

    http://sianews.com/modules.php?name=...ticle&sid=3023
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    um really thats ok; i have a definite phobia of flying now. another one to thank Bushie for

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    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    I hope I wake up like on Dallas or the Bob Newhart show and realize this is all a dream/nightmare. I can't even fucking believe this shit anymore. Who wants to bet Bush is still in the White House in 2009 due to 'national security reasons'?
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

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    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    OMG..we are going to be trapped here like rats..dependent on the evil ones to even leave...holy shit this is really becoming worse than nightmarish..Christ if this keeps up flotillas of US 'boat people' will be washing ashore in Ontario to escape the 'evil empire' *cries*
    Don't slap me, cause I'm not in the mood!

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    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    I remember the last time I had to pass through the States coming back from Australia and it was like entering a dictatorship for non-residents. The searches, the nastiness, the palpable paranoia -- I can only imagine how much worse it must be for someone who isn't white and North American like me.

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    Zee
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    It's like that for the citizens as well. Came into the US from Belfast and was also subject to intensive scrutiny.

    Then again, I have the same problem getting into the US from Canada. TSA is filled with people who couldn't get postal jobs.
    Drive a car, drive a boat, drive a plane. What does it matter? As long as I'm drunk!
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    A*O
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    The worst US airport by far for Aussies is Los Angeles. It's a madhouse at the best of times but all this security bullshit has made it x100 worse. Unfortunately most flights to the US from Oz to via LAX so now people here are trying to find alternatives like San Francisco or Vancouver - ANYWHERE except LAX (which is a fabulous acronym when you think about it)
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    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Actually Grimm the link is basically to the blog that you copied this from..and the link on that(http://
    hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf.) is showing a 404. Can you provide any additional info for this? I just stupidly posted this on another forum and got reamed as the link is just to a blog and the blog source is incactive.
    Don't slap me, cause I'm not in the mood!

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    Elite Member sprynkles's Avatar
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    Why, can anyone tell me? Why are people okay with this crap Bush is doing? He is f**king ruining everything this place is about. He has 2 more years to go. Agents can write their own warrants outside our frontdoors and do anything they want to us. They have our phone records. Too many liberties lost to even name and now this? Isn't it our duty as citizens to stop this shit?

    Meryl doesn't even try anymore. She just calls Lanvin and asks for curtains with a belt.~Bitter
    Can we interest you in Leann Rimes? She has a nice little cadre of fans you'd probably enjoy.~ Pecan Pie

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    A*O
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    Well apart from open revolution I can't really see how everyday citizens can do anything much except wait for the next election and hope to God that The Florida Incident doesn't happen again.
    I've never liked lesbianism - it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
    Dame Edna Everage

    Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right.

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    Elite Member twitchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    Actually Grimm the link is basically to the blog that you copied this from..and the link on that(http://
    hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf.) is showing a 404. Can you provide any additional info for this? I just stupidly posted this on another forum and got reamed as the link is just to a blog and the blog source is incactive.
    Your additional info:

    Go here:
    http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main
    click on "All Documents (Open and Closed for Comment)
    and enter this in the keyword: USCBP-2005-0003-0005

    This is the document they're so upset about. I haven't had time to read it.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    OMG..we are going to be trapped here like rats..dependent on the evil ones to even leave...holy shit this is really becoming worse than nightmarish..Christ if this keeps up flotillas of US 'boat people' will be washing ashore in Ontario to escape the 'evil empire' *cries*
    Right. Who do you think is going to protect you up here? We're sitting ducks. THIS is why I want a strong Canadian military.. I know the yanks will come for Canada eventually.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    A*O
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    I'm sorry - I shouldn't laugh - but I have this image of desperate Septics on innertubes and styrofoam boxes desperately paddling across the Great Lakes to the promised land of Canada. Sneaking across the border in Montana in the dead of night with RCMP patrols using extreme reasonableness to persuade them to turn back.
    I've never liked lesbianism - it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
    Dame Edna Everage

    Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right.

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    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    The QPP (Quebec Provincial Police) and OPP (Ontario) aren't known for their reasonableness. They can get downright nasty.

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    A*O
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    ^^^^^ Ohhhhh sweet. Payback LOL
    I've never liked lesbianism - it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
    Dame Edna Everage

    Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right.

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