Page 1 of 30 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 441

Thread: DREAM Act Failed - Crisis for America!

  1. #1
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    183

    Default DREAM Act Failed - Crisis for America!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us...opFg70IEnfRn3g
    Immigration Vote Leaves Obama’s Policy in Disarray

    Published: December 18, 2010

    The vote by the Senate on Saturday to block a bill to grant legal status to hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrant students was a painful setback to an emerging movement of immigrants and also appeared to leave the immigration policy of the Obama administration, which has supported the bill and the movement.

    The bill, known as the Dream Act, gained 55 votes in favor with 41 against, a tally short of the 60 votes needed to bring it to the floor for debate.

    Five Democrats broke ranks to vote against the bill, while only three Republicans voted for it. The defeat in the Senate came after the House of Representatives passed the bill last week.

    The result, although not unexpected, was still a rebuff to President Obama by newly empowered Republicans in Congress on an issue he has called one of his priorities.

    Supporters believed that the bill — tailored to benefit only immigrants who were brought here illegally when they were children and hoped to attend college or enlist in the military — was the easiest piece to pass out of a larger overhaul of immigration laws that Mr. Obama supports.

    His administration has pursued a two-sided policy, coupling tough enforcement — producing a record number of about 390,000 deportations this year — with an effort to pass the overhaul, which would open a path to legal status for an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants.

    Now, with less hope for any legalization measures once Republicans take over the House in January, the administration is left with just the stick.
    Part of the administration’s strategy has been to ramp up border and workplace enforcement to attract Republican votes for the overhaul. The vote on Saturday made it clear that strategy has not succeeded so far.

    Mr. Obama will now face growing pressure from immigrant and Latino groups to temper the crackdown and perhaps find ways to use executive powers to bring some illegal immigrants out of the shadows. Latino voters turned out in strength for the Democrats in the midterm elections, arguably saving their majority in the Senate.

    The Republicans in the new Congress are especially keen on tough enforcement. The presumed incoming chairman of the House Judiciary Committee’s subcommittee on immigration is Representative Steve King of Iowa, a vigorous opponent of legalization measures, which he rejects as amnesty for lawbreakers. Representative Lamar Smith of Texas, who will be chairman of the Judiciary Committee, is also an outspoken and well-versed opponent of such proposals.

    Groups favoring reduced immigration cheered Saturday’s vote as a watershed victory marking the end of a period when they have been on the defensive. Roy Beck, president of NumbersUSA, which lobbied hard against the bill, said the new Congress “has the strongest pro-enforcement membership” in at least 15 years.

    “Now, we look forward to moving aggressively to offense,” Mr. Beck said.
    During the last year, administration officials considered proposals to allow immigration authorities to use administrative powers to halt deportations of illegal immigrants who might have been eligible for legal status under the student bill. They also sought ways to ease deportations for other illegal immigrants with no criminal record.

    Republican lawmakers criticized those proposals as “backdoor amnesty” and pledged to stop the administration from carrying them out.

    The administration’s efforts to manage its policy dilemma played out this week. Speaking on Friday before the vote, John Morton, the head of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said the agency would continue the brisk pace of deportations, focusing on immigrants convicted of crimes. On the same day, the agency released from detention an 18-year-old Guatemalan student from Ohio, Bernard Pastor, granting him a one-year reprieve from deportation to continue his education.

    Despite the defeat, Democrats who supported the bill said they would continue to push for it. “As long as these young people are determined to be part of this great nation, I am determined to fight for them to call America home,” said Senator Richard J. Durbin of Illinois, the bill’s main champion.

    Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey, another sponsor, said Latinos would remember in the elections in 2012 how senators had voted.
    “This is a vote that will not soon be forgotten by a community that is growing not just in size, but also in power and political awareness,” Mr. Menendez said.

    Yet much pressure on the administration may come from immigrant organizations. Despite their illegal status, several hundred immigrant students watched the vote in the Senate gallery. Afterward, they held a somber prayer vigil in the basement of the Capitol, but moved on to a news conference that turned into a pep rally.

    “They did not defeat us, they ignited our fire,” said Alina Cortes, a 19-year-old Mexican-born immigrant from Texas who lacks legal status. A self-described conservative Republican, she campaigned for the student bill, saying she hoped to join the Marine Corps.

    The movement has been driven by thousands of students who “came out” to reveal that they did not have legal status, and to recount their academic achievements and the barriers they faced. Now that their status is public, they have nowhere to hide. Meanwhile, an estimated 65,000 illegal immigrants are graduating from high school each year.

    “We have woken up,” said Carlos Saavedra, national coordinator of the United We Dream Network, a student group. “We are going to go around the country letting everybody know who stands with us and who stood against us.”

    ================================================== ============================================

    Can't believe the United States is rejecting this. I could go on a long rant about it in this post, but this is definitely a slap in the face to all of us and a big win for the conservatives and the Republicans in the Senate who voted to block this bill.

    There are several other important reasons why this should have passed, beyond what the bill states.
    Last edited by mikesandy; December 19th, 2010 at 06:32 PM.

  2. #2
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,807

    Default

    Immigrants, illegal and otherwise, are the easiest target for threatened and anxious white people. The average person who is against the dream act doesn't understand what it entails and thinks it just means giving citizenship to illegal immigrants and taking away resources from non-illegals.

    This is an issue where fear-mongering works for politicians and it's an easy sop to throw to tea partiers, 'real Americans,' etc. rather than proposing alternatives of any value.

  3. #3
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    183

    Default

    I understand what you're saying. I really hope Barry can win re-election in 2012, and we can get a larger democratic majority in the House and the Senate, plus people who have the mentality of being more "progressive" in our currently changing society. Afterward, Harry Reid and Pelosi can push this bill again in 2013 and force the bill down the throats of Americans so it passes.

    I also believe that allowance of this bill to pass would have helped lower the country's unemployment rate, which is close to 10% now. Lets see if anyone here disputes my claim, because the people in this image are pissed.

    Last edited by mikesandy; December 19th, 2010 at 03:03 PM.

  4. #4
    Gold Member philbert_wormly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    812

    Default

    The DREAM Act would have been very nice. Actually, it would have been a great way to end the year.

    Sucks that it did not pass at all.

  5. #5
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Beyond Caring, then hang a left.
    Posts
    44,586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesandy View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us...opFg70IEnfRn3g

    Can't believe the United States is rejecting this. I could go on a long rant about it in this post, but this is definitely a slap in the face to all of us and a big win for the conservatives and the Republicans in the Senate who voted to block this bill.

    There are several other important reasons why this should have passed, beyond what the bill states.
    You need to post the article not just the URL

  6. #6
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    183

    Default

    I apologize. I will edit my first post. Now, going to into my long rant, I will attempt to explain the fundamental reasons for why this bill has not passed in the senate. I will outline all of the reasons and offer detailed reasons in this lengthy post. Bare with me as I edit and finalize this post.

    Reason #1 - Fundamental differences with states within the United States.
    Suppose you have a box in your room that contains 50 cards. Each card is labeled with the name of a US state. You close your eyes and pick 4 cards out of the box. The states you end up picking are: New York, New Jersey, Kansas, and Arkansas. Apparently there are crucial differences between these particular states. NY and NJ, both Northeastern states are very progressive/liberal, and have high minority populations and high median household incomes. I'm not saying that these states are "perfect states", but if this were an election issue and each state could vote on this issue, they would vote in favor of supporting the bill. The other two states, Kansas (which is in the Midwest) and Arkansas (which is in the South), are completely different from NY and NJ in so many ways. Both of these states have many rural, small town communities, which are mainly white. The median incomes of these states are also lower. You could say that these places are mainly white and mainly poor. Because of the demographics and circumstances you'd face there, those people just simply wouldn't support such a thing as the DREAM Act. Additionally, if you recall during the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama performed horribly in rural, small town communities. This contributed to the fact of why Obama lost the white vote although he won the election. The irony about this all is that the country is called the United States of America, but clearly we aren't united. There are serious divisions within this country.

    Reason #2 - US doesn't respect foreigners.
    J-1 International Student Abuse
    Basically just view this thread, I already explained everything there about it basically. Relates a bit to the DREAM act.

    Lou Dobbs arguing about it on CNN: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYov5eVNrME (Previous failures about this several years ago)

    As you can see on the YouTube link, SEFARAD2K4 states: "Immigration is not a left vs right issue. Illegals are turning every city they touch into a third world slum. This affects everyone. I'm all for diversity, but I sure as hell won't stand back and watch some fucktards claim that antisocial, criminal, degenerate behavior equates with diversity."

    In my opinion, this thinking is fundamentally flawed. What he does he refer to as he states "A third world slum"? I think a reason he makes this claim is because of California's unemployment rate, which is much higher than the national average. That doesn't mean that some Mexicans or immigrants can be in a town like Columbia, MD for instance, and all of a sudden Howard County becomes a third world slum. It depends on the wealth of the city and the unemployment rate of the city that they are in. The illegal immigrants can be in New York City or wealthy suburbs in Northern Virginia and it would make no difference in the city's condition. They would actually ascend to having a successful lifestyle, and not turn the city into a "third world slum" as he calls it. Basically the guy doesn't like people that don't look like himself. What if there are illegal immigrants who are Chinese or Korean? He would then say that the Chinese/Koreans are turning the city into a third world slum at a time when China is ascending into becoming an economic superpower. That's how I can contradict his argument.

    Reason #3 - Jobs and the Economy.
    As I have reiterated a few posts ago, we have some serious economic problems. This includes but isn't limited to home foreclosure, Americans having trouble paying off their mortgage payments, unemployment rates (nationally and locally) and variability with gasoline prices. We know that in a weaker economy, there is a disproportion between the amount of jobs that are available and the demand of the jobs. The demand exceeds the supply ridiculously. The conservative whites are in fear that illegal immigrants may end up getting leniency from employers that view their resume and they may get that job. They believe that the immigrants would then have advantages and higher standards of living over the conservative whites. The politicians that voted against this probably realized that this may be the case. As a result, that's a reason why they voted against the bill. The problem is that these people are not really thinking about others, they are thinking about themselves. My theory was that if this bill passed, the national unemployment rate would become lower in future years since the US is trying to become a more multi-cultural country. (Although we've got political hurdles to deal with that will threaten to reverse that).

    Reason #4 - Financial disparities between race. (AKA - The Income Gap)
    I'm pretty sure that the people who make the most money within the United States and in England are very upper class, "high caliber" whites. There is a saying that 10% of the people here control 80% of the financial assets while the other 90% or so control 20% of the financial assets of this country. Arianna Huffington has written a book about this, stating that we are advancing into becoming a third world country if we don't do something soon. Based on the mathematics above, all of the minorities in this country would control less than 20% of all the money that circulates daily in this country. Due to the existence of the financial disparities, it can be concluded that this puts minorities at a disadvantage within educational success, especially when it's with more difficult Math classes, such as Calculus I, II, III, Linear Algebra, and Differential Equations. The class sizes are probably too big, the teacher can't teach that well, and the guidance is minimal. Basically, my claim can be summed up by this Wikipedia chart, which shows the incomes of these people in the midst of an economic recession:


    You can see that the Hispanics (group we are fighting for) actually fare worse than blacks, who are weak financially as well. If these income disparities didn't exist, then I am confident that the bill would have passed. Asians seem to fare out evenly with Whites. There is also a disparity between the median income rate of every female within every racial group. I think that some of the politicians could have been sexist, and that could also be a reason of why they voted against the act. They don't want an even amount of income to be made for males and females.

    Reason #5 - Terrorism fears.
    Can't say much here. Osama Bin Laden attacked us on September 11th, and he's a foreigner from the caves in Afghanistan. He also orchestrated the bombings of US embassies in foreign countries in 1998. There are some Americans who may fear that the illegal immigrants would foster a more conducive environment in the United States to the creation of homegrown terrorism. You can view these instances that occur in the news when you hear about a failed terror attack by some guy with a foreign sounding name.
    Last edited by mikesandy; December 19th, 2010 at 08:22 PM.

  7. #7
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Burning Down Your Windmill
    Posts
    55,382

    Default

    Good. I'm against ANY form of amnesty for illegal immigrants, and I am neither a conservative nor a Repug.
    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

    http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic4098_9.gif Healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

  8. #8
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    fellow traveller
    Posts
    55,757

    Default

    ^^^
    gee, what a surprise.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBDSP View Post
    Immigrants, illegal and otherwise, are the easiest target for threatened and anxious white people. The average person who is against the dream act doesn't understand what it entails and thinks it just means giving citizenship to illegal immigrants and taking away resources from non-illegals.

    This is an issue where fear-mongering works for politicians and it's an easy sop to throw to tea partiers, 'real Americans,' etc. rather than proposing alternatives of any value.
    *applause*
    'blame the foreigner' fearmongering always works. in every country. and especially in times of economic turmoil. xenophobic politicians, ignorant people, growing xenophobia among the population, and a total lack of knowledge on the truth about migration, it all contributes to the anti-migrant sentiment.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  9. #9
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greysfang View Post
    Good. I'm against ANY form of amnesty for illegal immigrants, and I am neither a conservative nor a Repug.
    Well, just explain why. Don't just say you're against any form of amnesty for them.

  10. #10
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Burning Down Your Windmill
    Posts
    55,382

    Default

    Its simple, "illegal". Once you give amnesty to the children, then they become anchors for their parents who knowingly broke the law.

    And the whole military thing is bullshit. Serving in the armed forces has always been a quick path to citizenship.
    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

    http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic4098_9.gif Healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

  11. #11
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by greysfang View Post
    Its simple, "illegal". Once you give amnesty to the children, then they become anchors for their parents who knowingly broke the law.

    And the whole military thing is bullshit. Serving in the armed forces has always been a quick path to citizenship.
    There are still some immigrants who would be forced to serve in the armed forces anyway. How could they pay $20,000 to $30,000 dollars a year for an education for their kid right when they just arrived legally in the country. Also because of our economy, they would be lucky to get a job to begin with. In the best case scenario, the first job that the immigrants would obtain would just barely get them to barely be able to sustain a living with basic amenities (paying to have a roof over your head, electricity, water, food, one TV, one car and one computer). You make it seem like no matter where they travel, they'll always be struggling just because they aren't white and upper class. Also even when they serve in the armed forces, there's a cost to it. They get a "full tuition" basically, but they risk losing their lives in Iraq, Pakistan, or Afghanistan during war. I'm sure you must have known that.

  12. #12
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Burning Down Your Windmill
    Posts
    55,382

    Default

    What does that have to do with anything I said? Most Americans can't afford to send their kids to college either after a lifetime of working and paying taxes.
    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

    http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic4098_9.gif Healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

  13. #13
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    183

    Default

    Ok, then. Back to this quote you said.

    "Its simple, "illegal". Once you give amnesty to the children, then they become anchors for their parents who knowingly broke the law."

    This goes back to what I said in my previous post. If we had a democratic supermajority, this would have passed and we would have disregarded your opinion. This hasn't happened, so a greater fraction of Americans agree with your views instead of mine and that is the problem.

  14. #14
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Burning Down Your Windmill
    Posts
    55,382

    Default

    Its only a problem in your opinion. I, like the majority, don't want my taxes going to feed, house and educate criminals while there are children still going hungry and uneducated right here on our own turf. When I want to help other countries that are starving I give to charity. And since the US is always the most charitable country in the world, I feel comfortable that we do our share to help the less fortunate.
    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

    http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic4098_9.gif Healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

  15. #15
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    183

    Default

    But the act is stating that it's giving illegal immigrants a chance if they've had no criminal record, which means that their status in relation to the United States it means they are illegal. Illegal in the context that they are non-native to the United States. It doesn't instantaneously connotate that they are bad.

Page 1 of 30 1234511 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 15
    Last Post: May 23rd, 2010, 01:19 AM
  2. Replies: 56
    Last Post: November 25th, 2008, 11:22 AM
  3. Replies: 15
    Last Post: October 4th, 2008, 09:33 AM
  4. Ahmadinejad says West failed in Iran nuclear crisis
    By witchcurlgirl in forum Politics and Issues
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: June 19th, 2008, 01:04 PM
  5. Replies: 17
    Last Post: February 8th, 2007, 12:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •