Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Bad news on Don't Ask, Don't Tell: no repeal, more bigotry, White House cowardice

  1. #1
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Thumbs down Bad news on Don't Ask, Don't Tell: no repeal, more bigotry, White House cowardice

    Big news on the Don't Ask Don't Tell repeal front, and none of it good. The NYT reported in Friday morning's paper that the Pentagon memo that leaked yesterday from the Chairman of the Joint Chief's office was not just some "legal memo," as was first reported. It was a draft proposal for the position the Joint Chiefs should take with regards to the President's promise to repeal DADT. And the proposal was: "not now."

    The second big thing we learned in the NYT piece was that the Pentagon is considering whether to segregate, "separate but equal" style, gay troops, giving them separate showers and barracks, among other things. From the NYT:


    Despite the uncertainty of timing, another military official said that the Department of Defense was beginning to look at the practical implications of a repeal — for example, whether it would be necessary to change shower facilities and locker rooms because of privacy concerns, whether to ban public displays of affection on military bases and what to do about troops who are stationed or make port calls in nations that outlaw homosexuality.


    It's disturbing that the Pentagon is even talking about this, first of all because gays and lesbians are already in the Pentagon's showers and barracks. So this is a non-issue. The fact that the Pentagon doesn't realize this is simply bizarre. Second, why are we still talking about showers - what is this, 1993? And third, Barack Obama's Pentagon is actually discussing whether an African-American president should endorse the "separate but equal" segregation of a minority? Seriously?

    Even more troubling, this was not the first time that President Obama's Pentagon has brought up the idea of creating "separate but equal" gay solders in the US military. The Secretary of the Army mentioned the "separate but equal" option as well a few months back:


    Selling the idea to Congress, which has the final say, could depend on exactly what the administration tries to do in terms of the timing of repeal and how it is applied, McHugh said.

    It’s possible, for example, that homosexuals could be allowed into some occupations or units but barred from others, McHugh said, stressing that he was not aware of any such plans but only discussing how the issue might play out.



    Well, we're aware now.

    The Times article also references a secret gay meeting that took place this week to discuss the repeal of DADT. We've spoken to people who attended that meeting, and here's what we know.

    The meeting took place this past Wednesday in Washington, DC. Approximately 20 people were in attendance, including representatives from the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, the Palm Center, the Human Rights Campaign, Servicemembers United, and the Center for American Progress. No one from the administration attended the meeting, and the meeting was not called by the groups themselves, but rather a third party.

    In contrast to past statements from gay groups and administration officials that "there is a plan" with regards to the President's gay rights promises, including DADT, the secret meeting (and the Times article) both made clear that there still is no plan at all. Both the meeting and the Times article confirm that the White House has not even decided if it will push for the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell, let alone what exactly it will push for for, if anything (as noted in the Times article, the Pentagon is even considering whether a "separate but equal" policy should be adopted). The hope is that the White House will come to a decision and announce what, if anything, it is going to do about moving forward on the repeal of DADT sometime in the next month or two. But the groups have no idea what the White House is going to decide, or when it will decide, and therefore cannot and will not endorse an all-out campaign to support the repeal of DADT until the White House makes up its mind.

    Last May, Human Rights Campaign president Joe Solmonese told the NYT that there was in fact a plan:


    The White House, aware of the discontent, invited leaders of some prominent gay rights organizations to meet Monday with top officials, including Jim Messina, Mr. Obama’s deputy chief of staff, to plot legislative strategy on the hate crimes bill as well as “don’t ask, don’t tell.” Among those attending was Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, who said afterward that while the gay rights agenda might not be “unfolding exactly as we thought,” he was pleased.

    “They have a vision,” Mr. Solmonese said. “They have a plan.”



    We now know that this was untrue, or at best, the plan was trashed.

    It was clear to everyone in the gay meeting, I'm told, that we can't win this without the President's leadership. But there is no indication of what if anything the President will do. The attendees split generally into two camps. One side wanting to wait and see what the President does, versus the other side feeling we can't afford to wait because it's not clear the President will ever lead.

    As for my take on this news, we have been told repeatedly that there was a plan. I won't reveal the details of my recent private conversation with openly gay head of the Office of Personnel Management, John Berry, but suffice it to say that the NYT and the details of the private meeting make clear that what Berry told me at Christmas was a lie.

    Why are our groups waiting for the White House to tell them whether the President is going to keep his campaign promise, and whether the President is going to embrace the reviled "separate but equal" segregation option, before acting? Why are our groups not sitting at the table with the White House hammering out the policy, rather than sitting back and crossing their fingers, unable to act, until the White House deigns to let us know what they plan on doing with our civil rights? Why does it feel like health care reform all over again, waiting until the last minute and then hoping everything works out, while the King Solomons at the White House discuss how to cut the baby in half?

    No other than openly gay Congressman Barney Frank explained last year how important it was to have an all lobbying campaign before we even think of bringing up DADT repeal:


    “I believe we should and will do ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ next year,” said Frank, a co-chairman of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender Equality Caucus. “We haven’t done the preliminary work, the preparatory work. It would be a mistake to bring it up without a lot of lobbying and a lot of conversation.”


    Has there been lobbying? Sure. The same amount as last year when Barney said it wasn't nearly enough.

    Why does it increasingly feel as if we are dealing with George Bush's White House and not a Democrat who promised to be our "fierce advocate"?

    AMERICAblog Gay: Pentagon considering whether gay troops need to be segregated 'separate but equal' style; secret gay meeting confirms 'there is no plan' on DADT
    Nice. Lies, crap, and more bigotry and stupidity.

    It's getting pretty damn old.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  2. #2
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    I know nobody cares but me, but i'm gonna update this anyway..

    Here we go again. This is why Presidential leadership matters.

    Bringing back memories of Senate Armed Services Chair, Democrat Sam Nunn, who led the charge against President Clinton's effort to repeal the gay ban in 1993, today we hear from the Chair of the House Armed Services Committee, Ike Skelton (D-MO), that he too is going to oppose the repeal of DADT:

    "I am personally not for changing the law," he said during a C-SPAN "Newsmakers" interview that will air Sunday.

    Because the military is engaged in two major conflicts, Afghanistan and Iraq, changing the law would create "disruption" that can cause some "serious problems," Skelton said during the interview.

    He said the full House Armed Services Committee won't hold a hearing on the repeal of the law. Rather, the Personnel subcommittee will hold the hearing at some point this year.



    Notice a pattern? What Skelton said is remarkably similar to the language used in the Pentagon's leaked memo:

    "Now is not the time," the in-house legal counsel for Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, wrote recently in a memorandum obtained by The Associated Press. "The importance of winning the wars we are in, along with the stress on the force, our body of knowledge and the number of unknowns demand that we act with deliberation."


    Skelton is tight with the Pentagon, and it appears more than a coincidence that they're using the same language to try to thwart the President's promise.

    The other side has launched its strategy to prevent the repeal of the law. Unhelpful leaks from the Pentagon, the key Democrat on the authorizing committee coming out publicly against us. People seriously proposing segregation of gay troops. It really is 1993 all over again. The same players on the Hill and in the Pentagon are publicly working against our President's promise, against our civil rights. Will our President rise to the challenge?

    An early sign of what's to come -- our side doesn't even yet have a strategy or plan to insure that DADT is repealed. Robert Gibbs confirmed that earlier this afternoon. Our enemies are wasting no time moving ahead with their strategy. Some day, hopefully, our side will come up with one too.

    AMERICAblog Gay: Chair of House Armed Services Committee opposes repeal of DADT. Do we have our new Sam Nunn?
    Sigh. It's never "the time". If people waited for "the right time" for everything, it would never come.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  3. #3
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    support histiocytosis awareness
    Posts
    7,363

    Default

    I read a few articles on this.
    Seems the gays heard the promises and believed - well I think Obama will come through but not any time soon. Right now he's busy dealing with loss of jobs, bankrupt states and a debt to China thats down right embarrassing.

    so cut the man some slack, also throwing around the word bigot constantly lessens it's importance.

    I didn't vote for Obama but I am willing to give him a chance and face facts - our country is going down the toilet, first things first.

  4. #4
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    Right, the "too much on his plate" argument and the "there are more important things" combined with the "it's only been _____ months"

    So let's go down one by one.

    1) He has too much on his plate. Yes, he has so much on his plate that he keeps taking on new things, such as middle east peace, and pushing other stuff off his plate, things that aren't "important", such as ending second class citizenship and the apartheid that exists in the US today. Right. Nevermind that desegregation in the military was done with the stroke of a pen from an actual LEADER back in the day.. no, president fierce says "well congress has to lead".. and then congress says "well the president has to lead" and nobody leads and nothing gets done because people are fucking pussies.


    2) There are more important things. Uhhuh. There are ALWAYS more important things it seems. It's always "wait". Wait till we get the senate. Wait till we get the house. Wait till we get the presidency. Wait till we deal with the economy. Wait till we deal with healthcare. Wait till after the mid terms. Wait till his second term (if any), wait till being gay is less controversial, wait wait wait wait wait. I guess full equality for people isn't important to those already born to their rights. They don't really know what its like to be 2/3 of a person, do they. They have all the time and patience in the world, they have nothing on the line.

    Martin Luther King said it best:

    ""I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the gay's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the Straight Citizen's Councilor or the Religious Right, but the straight moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice, who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice, who constantly says 'I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action', who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for someone else's freedom, who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises gays to wait for a 'more convenient season.'"

    With apologies to Martin Luther King, i just switched out 'black/white/ for 'gay/straight'


    3) It's only been ________ days/months/years. Yes, it's only been so long but he's been able to do quite a few things in that time, hasn't he? He seems to have time to do all of those which are infinitely more complex and time consuming. Speaking of time, he's found quite a bit of time to actually fight AGAINST gay rights.. defending it here and there from lawsuits, upholding the apparent 'constitutionality" of the ludicrously titled "Defense of Marriage Act", as well as Don't Ask, Don't Tell (products of the LAST democratic presidency i might add). He seems to have PLENTY of time to actively work AGAINST gay rights.. but none to work FOR them. Interesting.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  5. #5
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Central Duh-hio
    Posts
    22,811

    Default

    Grimm..what should the gays here in the US do? What actual concrete things can be done?

    I know you care about this issue. Can you provide links, info, etc. ?

    It is just hard to know what to do, and when is the right time to do it. What can be done that will not backfire and alienate the very people who are (at least theoretically)on our side?

    Should we sue the government? Boycott? Protest? March? What will work?

    I can't exactly see us saying "Fuck it" like the blacks did in the sixties and burning our little pink ghetto-villes to the ground.

    The whole thing is so fucking frustrating, plus we have the added burden of an economy that is in the shitter. We can't cling to other 'current' civil rights movements going on, to Vietnam, etc. It just seems like we are alone and people really do not give a shit about our rights because there are more 'important' things going on.

    And the worst thing is, sometimes I think they are right.

    What is going on constitutionally with this?-it really is just like gay marriage-that is going to end up in the Supreme Court-isn't this the same thing, and we should just keep fighting through the courts to get equal rights?-nothing changed for blacks until they had court decisions on their side, and a government willing to back those decisions up( Federal Troops at Little Rock Central High).. right?
    Don't slap me, cause I'm not in the mood!

  6. #6
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,250

    Default

    Yes, he has so much on his plate that he keeps taking on new things, such as middle east peace, and pushing other stuff off his plate, things that aren't "important", such as ending second class citizenship and the apartheid that exists in the US today. Right. Nevermind that desegregation in the military was done with the stroke of a pen from an actual LEADER back in the day.
    Middle east peace is vitally important for the security of the US and the world.

    Truman did desegregate the troops, but he didn't do it in his first year when we were still fighting WW2. He waited till 1948, which would be Obama's 2012, to do it.

    I agree that more progress should be made, and that the WH should get out in front. But saying that Obama = Bush and Obamafail doesn't help matters. It doesn't empower Obama to do the right thing. It only helps the Republican/teabagger right.

    Edited to add that Kennedy didn't do much for civil rights in his first year of office and that it took Lincoln three years to give the Emancipation Proclaimination.

  7. #7
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    13,468

    Default

    True, they'll always bring up that "oh let's see if we need to have separate facilities/create a drain or stress on our current system" crap to prolong having to make ANY decision.

    Everyone's just too scared to make a decision, period. You know the president doesn't want to deal with this now, maybe not until he gets elected for a second term and is 'safe' to deal with it.

    Unfortunately, to me this seems like one of those things that you are not going to have the U.S. military institution embrace. It's something that'll have to be enforced on the military from the outside.

  8. #8
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    Grimm..what should the gays here in the US do? What actual concrete things can be done?
    Stop voting Democrat, for one. They haven't done shit all for gays. They say they will, take your money and votes and then tell you to get the fuck lost.

    People need to break out of "but the GOP will win!" mindset. So what? What changes if they do? Nothing. They're both 2 heads of the same corporately controlled monster.

    Vote independent, vote third party, actually vote for who best represents you.. people who actually make your issues their own. If nobody is representing you, don't hold your nose and vote the lesser of whatever evils are presented you. Don't vote at all.

    I know you care about this issue. Can you provide links, info, etc. ?
    .. such as?

    It is just hard to know what to do, and when is the right time to do it. What can be done that will not backfire and alienate the very people who are (at least theoretically)on our side?
    Well for one, backfire on who? Backfire how? Secondly, stop giving a shit about what others think about "your side". Real allies will stand with you.. the fairweather allies, the "not right not, it's not the time, be patient, stop rocking the boat" type can go fuck themselves. They are part of the problem.

    Should we sue the government? Boycott? Protest? March? What will work?
    Visit your partner in the hospital, and tell them to shove their straight "family only" crap up their asses. Put them down on your insurance. Refuse to pay taxes as 2/3 of a person. Protest. March. Civil disobedience.

    Gays in the US need to get A LOT MORE physical. Working within the system does not work, and having your rights up to a public, majority vote also does not work.. on that last point, it shouldn't even be attempted. It's disgusting to even take part in something to dehumanizing. Lawsuits after lawsuits should be filed, over and over and over and over.

    I can't exactly see us saying "Fuck it" like the blacks did in the sixties and burning our little pink ghetto-villes to the ground.
    .. and the powers that be know that. Gays sacrifice very little, and expect a lot of results in the US. Unfortunately, your system is insane and it's going to take a lot more than asking nicely.

    The whole thing is so fucking frustrating, plus we have the added burden of an economy that is in the shitter.
    Blah blah blah the economy is always doing badly so you cant rock the boat, or the economy is doing well and you cant rock the boat. Who the fuck cares what the economy is doing, the answer is the same: don't rock the boat. EVER.

    So fucking rock the boat.

    We can't cling to other 'current' civil rights movements going on, to Vietnam, etc. It just seems like we are alone and people really do not give a shit about our rights because there are more 'important' things going on.
    Yeah, so stop relying on them. Your rights shouldn't be dependent on their whims, they have no place voting on if you are a whole person or not.

    And the worst thing is, sometimes I think they are right.
    Right about what?

    What is going on constitutionally with this?-it really is just like gay marriage-that is going to end up in the Supreme Court-isn't this the same thing, and we should just keep fighting through the courts to get equal rights?-nothing changed for blacks until they had court decisions on their side, and a government willing to back those decisions up( Federal Troops at Little Rock Central High).. right?
    Court wins and then some kind of leader willing to man up. That man is not presently in power.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  9. #9
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by visitor42 View Post
    Middle east peace is vitally important for the security of the US and the world.
    Middle east peace hasn't happened in 50 years, and amazingly the security situation has remained pretty static as a result. SO what's important? The fact that it remains a powderkeg? The fact that it's more or less in the same spot it was 50 years ago? Is the ongoing stupidity in that part of the world vital to US security? I'm not following your logic.

    Truman did desegregate the troops, but he didn't do it in his first year when we were still fighting WW2. He waited till 1948, which would be Obama's 2012, to do it.
    Afghanistan and Iraq are not WW2, and firing of priceless arab/pashtun linguists continues despite the desperate need for them. America will ALWAYS be in some conflict or another. Even when the US wasn't involved in anything major, gays got handed DOMA and DADT. So that theory is out the window.

    I agree that more progress should be made, and that the WH should get out in front.
    Yes, but they're too busy undermining it from behind the scenes. They aren't interested in it unless it's to uphold the present apartheid.

    But saying that Obama = Bush and Obamafail doesn't help matters. It doesn't empower Obama to do the right thing. It only helps the Republican/teabagger right.
    1) Comparing Obama to Bush when he continues Bush policies or when he fails at something is calling it like it is. If reality is too difficult, that's too bad.

    2) Obama is NOT INTERESTED IN BEING EMPOWERED TO DO THE RIGHT THING. If he was, he wouldn't have voted for FISA, he wouldn't have sold actual health reform down the river in favor of an insurance industry givaway, wouldn't have thrown women under the bus with the anti-abortion stupak amendment, he wouldn't be continuing to uphold the questionable constitutionality of DOMA/DADT, he wouldn't be continuing the horrors at Bagram and insanity of GITMO (closing it is window dressing, the prisoners are still without any rights or access to legal counsel or even know what they're charged with), he wouldn't have invited antigay freaks to his inauguration, he wouldn't have appointed the architects of the economic meltdown to organize massive givaways to Wall Street (Geithner, btw, is under serious investigation for his actions, and he'll be the fall guy)....etc ect ect ect. The list just goes on and on.

    3) It only helps the Republicans/Teabaggers? Pointing out reality helps them? Too freaking bad. Are people supposed to just shut up and pretend it isn't happening, on the off chance it helps their identical political opponents?

    Again, who cares? Democrats have proven to be just as insane as they are, except totally spineless. They're owned just as much by corporate powers, and have proven to be even less effective than the GOP at running much of anything and have continued their most reprehensible policies. So what universe are you saving by keeping Dems in power?

    That's the hilarious part. People are so wrapped up in this whole "i'm on this team, its the good team, the other team is bad" mental duality. It's like cheerleading, and it's brainless when the policies put forth and the reality is that they're pretty much both the same.

    Edited to add that Kennedy didn't do much for civil rights in his first year of office and that it took Lincoln three years to give the Emancipation Proclaimination.
    Obama only had one. 2010 is mid terms, and Obama will lose one or both the houses. Pelosi already said they wouldn't be touching anything "controversial" from 2010 onwarsd. Obama wasn't able to accomplish dick all with his "super majority" anyway because he didn't lead worth shit. When he loses one or both houses, he will be totally hamstrung. He will not get a second term.

    That is the situation. It's abysmal.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  10. #10
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Central Duh-hio
    Posts
    22,811

    Default

    Visit your partner in the hospital, and tell them to shove their straight "family only" crap up their asses. Put them down on your insurance. Refuse to pay taxes as 2/3 of a person. Protest. March. Civil disobedience.

    Gays in the US need to get A LOT MORE physical. Working within the system does not work, and having your rights up to a public, majority vote also does not work.. on that last point, it shouldn't even be attempted. It's disgusting to even take part in something to dehumanizing. Lawsuits after lawsuits should be filed, over and over and over and over.
    Well I like and agree with this enough. And I would fucking love to sue the government.

    Just like I feel like I should just go to the Statehouse and fucking demand to have available and relatively affordable health insurance.

    I need to look up some local organizations. I am not going to be working no 60 or 70 hours a week for now(I am just DONE with that shit) so I should have some more time.

    I am just getting increasingly pissed off and frustrated about this kind of shit.
    Don't slap me, cause I'm not in the mood!

  11. #11
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    support histiocytosis awareness
    Posts
    7,363

    Default

    [quote=Sojiita;2016030]

    I can't exactly see us saying "Fuck it" like the blacks did in the sixties and burning our little pink ghetto-villes to the ground.

    quote]

    oh pooh so sue me I thought it was funny


    I'd love our country to have a medical plan but did you see what happened to that? They shot holes in it, they made the file 3 feet thick, put in add on's and left out stuff they promised. Now it's no where close to helping anyone. Thank you insurance companies with big bucks who buys votes you rat bastards.

    I risk being called more names but I'm throwing it out there anyway. There is a growing problem of same sexual harrassment cases. Not like you think, it's gay men attacking straight men. Perhaps the powers that be are afraid of this happening in the military, either gays attacking straights or straights attacking gays.

    Male on male sexual harrassment on the rise

    Shouldn't they be more worried about getting shot at then dealing with who is gay and who isn't?

    Before you say "well if your not with us you must be against us" actually I'm standing on the side lines just trying to understand whats going on.

  12. #12
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    ^ Uh no, that's straight men attacking straight men. Think college hazing. Same deal.

    Gays have served in the military ever since it was formed and nothing has happened. They shower together, share trenches together, sleep in close quarters. Why would it suddenly change?
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  13. #13
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    33,488

    Default

    the mendacity of hope
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  14. #14
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    The Audacity of Nope
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  15. #15
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    13,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    ^ Uh no, that's straight men attacking straight men. Think college hazing. Same deal.

    Gays have served in the military ever since it was formed and nothing has happened. They shower together, share trenches together, sleep in close quarters. Why would it suddenly change?
    I'm just guessing here, but in the non combat jobs and areas, I would think it's less homophobic than in the macho combat arms like infantry. I haven't exactly heard positive things in terms of gays from the macho combat types on various message boards.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Padma Lakshmi at White House
    By olivia720 in forum Famous Style
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: May 12th, 2009, 10:28 AM
  2. White House win on FISA
    By witchcurlgirl in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: June 20th, 2008, 04:49 PM
  3. The REAL White House
    By deckchick in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: April 1st, 2006, 12:24 PM
  4. Isaac Hayes Quits 'South Park' Over 'Bigotry'
    By Lobelia in forum Gossip Archive
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: March 15th, 2006, 04:17 AM
  5. Jeb doesn't rule out run for White House.
    By buttmunch in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: November 15th, 2005, 04:40 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •