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Thread: American capitalism gone with a whimper

  1. #1
    Bronze Member MissFit's Avatar
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    Default American capitalism gone with a whimper

    post deleted by poster, mods pls delete
    Last edited by MissFit; June 1st, 2009 at 03:38 PM.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    But we Russians would not just roll over and give up our freedoms and our souls
    You gave it up for nearly a century to the Soviet high command, who kept you in poverty and horror, wiping out millions in government sponsored collective farms. Before that, you were serfs and peasants to a dazzingly rich dynasty of Tsars.

    Then you gave it up, under the guise of reform, to jackbooted thugs like Putin who let you have money for a little while before reinstating government control over corporations to weed out political enemies and challenges.

    You're no more free than the leash you're on, and when you pull too hard Putin hangs you by it.

    Secondly..

    Senator Barney Franks, a social pervert basking in his homosexuality (of course, amongst the modern, enlightened American societal norm, as well as that of the general West, homosexuality is not only not a looked down upon life choice, but is often praised as a virtue)
    Qualifies as homophobic hate speech, and is quite offensive to my person.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Default re

    The article in the OP (now deleted) is by a Russian blogger. It was reprinted as an editorial in Pravda.

    This blogger also believes the US is deliberately allowing the swine flu to spread to destroy the existing medical system so that a socialist-Marxist system can be imposed. And he believes in the divine right of kings.

    The blogger is entitled to his opinion, of course, homophobic and bat-shit crazy as it may be, but I am also entitled to be not impressed and offended.

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    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    I wish I had seen the article. Pure capitalism, though, is a joke. It can't work because people are greedy and those in power don't like to share in the sandbox. On the other hand, pure Communism won't work because...people are greedy and those in power don't like to share in the sandbox. To beat a dead horse, I lived in Sweden and they seem to have struck a pretty good balance between the two but maybe it works because it's a small country...and they're bloody determined for it TO work.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

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    Elite Member CornFlakegrl's Avatar
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    Greed infects every system whether it's political, financial, social or religious. For me personally, I'll take my chances with a free market (one that has laws to protects as much as possible from fraud and greed) rather than hand over my future to the government.

    I'll be labeled an asshole, but this idea of a national healthcare system is wrongheaded and a future disaster. Our government hasn't managed its current social systems well, what makes us think it will handle this any better?

    Besides, the root problem is sky rocketing health care costs. The reasons for which are myriad, some legit and others not so much. Putting a nationalized healthcare system in place does nothing to address that. In fact, it helps promote it. Because the cost will be subsidized by the governemnt who after all, will just be taking out of our pockets anyway.

    Finding real solutions would take hard work, unpopular decisions and vision. So much easier to put a band aid on it and leave it for the next generation to figure out.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    National healthcare is not a bad idea, many countries do it and do it well. It's not some disaster UNLESS you allow big pharma and big med and whatnot to set the prices, as they do now in the US, which is why health care si so vastly overpriced. it's a for profit industry. The costs aren't skyrocketing, the PRICE thy want you to pay is. They're gouging the fuck out every US citizen, and they're being allowed to do it under the guise of "free market, self regulating" business.

    Business does NOT self regulate. Ever. Business must be strictly monitored, policed and otherwise or else you'll get what the US has turned into.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member CornFlakegrl's Avatar
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    You're right, the prices are out of control. My point dovetails with yours ... if that root problem isn't addressed a national health care system won't help.

    People blame HMOs for a lot of this but their biggest part of the blame, imo, is that they took the patient out of the financial decision making seat. When you suddenly only had to pay $5 for an office visit, it became very appealing to see your doctor for a hangnail. Utilization went through the roof. And with technology, the demand for the more expensive services grew as well. For too long, those choices didn't effect the patient's wallet.


    I agree, too, that regulation is necessary, but to me, regulation should be about rooting out fraud, deception, ant-trust issues, etc. When the government starts tinkering with how a business can run beyond those legal issues, they'll fuck it up. That's why the regulations under FDR's New Deal started getting rolled back in the 70s. A company couldn't buy toilet paper without government permission and that strangle-hold was killing our economy. The economy boomed with the relaxation. Then it went too far (like greed does) and here we are.

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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Business does NOT self regulate. Ever. Business must be strictly monitored, policed and otherwise or else you'll get what the US has turned into.
    Holy shit,Batmam! We have hundreds of thousands of small & large businesses that do not require micomanaging! Lord,that's one way the whole country would end up just like your company! No,thanks. You don't like it either-we have noted & agreed with your complaints. There is no way that will happen here. We all still have a chance at the American Dream-which never has been based on following strict guidelines. Most of our forefathers came here for the freedom,not to be policed! While Wall Street & various car makers were shortsided & stupid,that does not mean all of our businesses are,not by a long shot! Most do quite well & a fairly demanding public makes sure they are fair to the consumer. Yes-they self regulate if they want to make it. I know we are an unusual country. Mostly because of our people are made up from every other country out there. All wanting something more. We have it. It may have gone through a down spin,but all ready shows signs of recovery. Just a question of time!
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    Holy shit,Batmam! We have hundreds of thousands of small & large businesses that do not require micomanaging! Lord,that's one way the whole country would end up just like your company!
    I'm talking massive conglomerates, and ridiculous institutions like HMO's... not a mom and pop operation down the street.

    It's also NOT micromanaging, it's MACRO managing.

    No thanks. You don't like it either-we have noted & agreed with your complaints. There is no way that will happen here. We all still have a chance at the American Dream-which never has been based on following strict guidelines.
    Yes, and look what that's got you. The American dream is about unbridled expansion with no rules, at the expense of everybody else. Even now you're constrained by laws governing business, so the argument that business is free to do whatever it wants is tossed out on its ear.

    Most of our forefathers came here for the freedom,not to be policed!
    You're policed now. Please stop quoting that lame "Americuh is abowt Freedum!" claptrap too, it's not exactly in force these days. Your model of doing business is UNSUSTAINABLE. Look what happened with regulation rollback, you get absolute clusterfuck. Business never has, and never will, self regulate when it gets over a certain size.

    Business does While Wall Street & various car makers were shortsided & stupid,that does not mean all of our businesses are,not by a long shot!
    sigh, see above.

    Most do quite well & a fairly demanding public makes sure they are fair to the consumer. Yes-they self regulate if they want to make it.
    To a point.

    I know we are an unusual country. Mostly because of our people are made up from every other country out there.
    Yeah, lots of countries are. That's not a special claim any longer.

    All wanting something more. We have it. It may have gone through a down spin,but all ready shows signs of recovery. Just a question of time!
    Yes, and your previous levels were unsustainable and built on air, and i might also add built upon the backs of other nations who enslave their own people to feed the cavernous material maw of America.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post

    You're policed now. Please stop quoting that lame "Americuh is abowt Freedum!" claptrap too, it's not exactly in force these days. Your model of doing business is UNSUSTAINABLE. Look what happened with regulation rollback, you get absolute clusterfuck. Business never has, and never will, self regulate when it gets over a certain size.

    Yes, and your previous levels were unsustainable and built on air, and i might also add built upon the backs of other nations who enslave their own people to feed the cavernous material maw of America.
    Yeah? Well,come on down & join our workforce-in general & even with this going on, you can almost be sure of a nicer outcome! Maybe not! Yes,they were unsustainable-underneath is a solid,inovative massive group of business people,small & corporate who will make this work out fine. Without crippling micomanaging. If not-mahhh-they can always shoot themselves. You'd have to use a knife,I guess.
    I like our way-flawed as it might be. No way is ever perfect,but ours works and will keep on working. And you can keep on complaining! We will never see this the same way.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yours doesn't work. The american level of consumption is unsustainable on a planetary scale.

    Pretending otherwise is silly.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member qwerty's Avatar
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    Grimm, tell us. How do the Canadians do/regulate business differently? I've not studied the Canadian corporate business model but at face value, it does not seem all that different from what we have to put up down south.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    It's actually not THAT different, just more stringent. Same with our financial institutions that were, up till now, labelled "overly cautious"... now we're the model everybody is looking at for competent regulation and sane investing.. Sure, we don't have the insane cashraking the US did, but the money we make is also not based on air, and we're weathering the worldwide crash much better than many nations.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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