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Thread: Banned torture photos allegedly show US soldier raping female Iraqi prisoner

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Angry Banned torture photos allegedly show US soldier raping female Iraqi prisoner

    The images are among photographs included in a 2004 report into prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib prison conducted by U.S. Major General Antonio Taguba.

    Taguba included allegations of rape and sexual abuse in his report, and on Wednesday he confirmed to the Daily Telegraph that images supporting those allegations were also in the file....

    The newspaper said at least one picture showed an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee.

    Others are said to depict sexual assaults with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube.



    Obama:


    "The publication of these photos would not add any additional benefit to our understanding of what was carried out in the past by a small number of individuals," the president said at a White House briefing.


    Well, I for one am feeling a bit had. You'll recall that the GOP line of attack on the abuse photos previously was that they were indicative of nothing more than the equivalent of fraternity pranks. Well, I don't know what fraternity these boys went to, but US soldiers raping female prisoners goes far beyond a frat prank. Yes, we knew that they scared the prisoners with dogs and humiliated them by making them stand nude in front of women. (There was also that photo of the dead prisoner on ice...) I do not believe that we had any clue that prisoners were being raped as part of their interrogation. This most certainly adds something new, if only to silence those critics who claimed that this was just another day at the office.

    I'd also add that this was not just the errant acts of a few soldiers. Torture was official US policy. And the Obama administration has already made clear that there is no benefit in holding accountable those who came up with this policy. So these photos shed quite a light on Obama's decision not to hold the intellectual fathers of these acts accountable.

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    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    I think Butt already posted this.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Obama has made Gen. McChrystal commander of US forces in Afghanistan. McChrystal headed up special ops in Iraq, where some of the worst torture was committed...So we'll be bringing that to Afghanistan.

    Proof it's not only condoned by the new admin, but rewarded
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    Elite Member cmmdee's Avatar
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    Disgusting. And that they photographed it.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    So, soldiers raping people is somehow condoned by Obama? Okay. Or it could be that the photos of Americans raping Iraqi women would be like throwing gasoline on the fire. Sort of like how that cartoon of Mohammed in Europe did a couple of years ago.

    I'm more concerned about whether the soldiers who committed the rapes were ever charged, not about seeing the pictures of them doing it.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yes, by all means lets sweep it under the rug. Nothing to see her by Barry's own admission.. apparently they weren't very scandalous. Barry has an odd definition of scandalous.
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    Elite Member ana-mish-ana's Avatar
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    This is beyond disgusting

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    I was reading another article where they mentioned a male soldier (translator I think) raped a 15-18 year old boy...and they photographed it too

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    I don't think he condones the rapes on a personal level.

    But promoting a man who headed up the group that committed some of the worst torture instead of bringing him up on charges is condoning. He was rewarded for his efforts, not punished. Seems fairly clear.

    The story is that this torture was ordered from the top down, so not just the soldiers that committed these acts need punishment, but so do the officers that ordered it as well.

    I don't buy the 'keeping the troops safe' canard. Didn't buy it under Bush with the first Abu Grahib pics, and I don't buy it now.

    The knowledge that this took place is already out there.

    How much more inflamed can they get against us by seeing these pictures? We've been killing them for 7 years, torturing them, raping them, bombing them.......they live it on a daily basis, they don't need a photo to inflame them.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


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    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    Didn't a lot of these photos actually come out during that female soldiers trial?
    Damn, I can't remember her name.

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    Apparently there's 400 more..

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    the truth is the pics are going to get out anyway......
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Yes, by all means lets sweep it under the rug. Nothing to see her by Barry's own admission.. apparently they weren't very scandalous. Barry has an odd definition of scandalous.
    Who needs to see photos of anybody being raped? What purpose does that serve to anyone to show them, unless it's during a trial for the soldiers responsible. So, it's not about sweeping it under the rug, it's about drawing the line at what the public actually needs to see.

    And maybe Obama downplayed the photos for a reason. What president wants to broadcast to the entire world that we have photos of troops raping people? We all know it happened, do we need to see the actual rape photos?

    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I don't think he condones the rapes on a personal level.

    But promoting a man who headed up the group that committed some of the worst torture instead of bringing him up on charges is condoning. He was rewarded for his efforts, not punished. Seems fairly clear.

    The story is that this torture was ordered from the top down, so not just the soldiers that committed these acts need punishment, but so do the officers that ordered it as well.

    I don't buy the 'keeping the troops safe' canard. Didn't buy it under Bush with the first Abu Grahib pics, and I don't buy it now.

    The knowledge that this took place is already out there.

    How much more inflamed can they get against us by seeing these pictures? We've been killing them for 7 years, torturing them, raping them, bombing them.......they live it on a daily basis, they don't need a photo to inflame them.
    You're right, the knowledge is out there, but does the public need to see the rape photos? The Iraqi people know the hell American has done to their country. But seeing photos of American troops raping Arab women is not going to sit well in the Arab world. And since we're currently fighting two wars why give people any more reason to want to keep the war going. If there were photos of Arabs raping female U.S. troops it wouldn't sit well with America, and would spur U.S. troops to get revenge. So, what makes you think that wouldn't happen in Iraq?

    And unless the guy knew exactly what was going on and turned a blind eye you can't say he condoned it. Hell, that former General Janice Karpinski ran Abu Ghrab and I don't see people on the left saying she condoned it. She got thrown to the wolves by the right, but I don't see people on the left saying she should be charged or in jail. She apparently didn't know what was going on, so no one can say she condoned it.
    Last edited by kingcap72; May 28th, 2009 at 12:31 PM.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Who needs to see photos of anybody being raped? What purpose does that serve to anyone to show them, unless it's during a trial for the soldiers responsible. So, it's not about sweeping it under the rug, it's about drawing the line at what the public actually needs to see.
    It's about controlling perception to disallow public outrage to foster forward movement on prosecution. That's it.

    Nobody will be prosecuted because the public, by and large, is ignorant of what went on.

    See: My Lai.

    And maybe Obama downplayed the photos for a reason. What president wants to broadcast to the entire world that we have photos of troops raping people? We all know it happened, do we need to see the actual rape photos?
    No, we don't. Some people do. Again, the populace is ignorant. Barry himself downplayed how horrible the pictures were. Apparently not scandalous. Prisoners being beated and raped isn't scandalous to him?

    Yes, people need to see. They needed to see caskets coming home from Iraq too.

    You're right, the knowledge is out there, but does the public need to see the rape photos? The Iraqi people know the hell American has done to their country. But seeing photos of American troops raping Arab women is not going to sit well in the Arab world.
    It shouldn't.

    And since we're currently fighting two wars why give people any more reason to want to keep the war going. If there were photos of Arabs raping female U.S. troops it wouldn't sit well with America, and would spur U.S. troops to get revenge. So, what makes you think that wouldn't happen in Iraq?
    it probably would. the US should probably fucking leave iraq, but it won't. It'll sweep this under the carpet, no justice will prevail, the victims will remain unknown and it'll be but a blip in the history books.

    And unless the guy knew exactly what was going on and turned a blind eye you can't say he condoned it.
    Refusing to prosecute now is tacitly condoning it.

    Frankly, I'm tired of all the reaching Barry's defenders are doing to pretzel this into something that is somehow acceptable.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    It's about controlling perception to disallow public outrage to foster forward movement on prosecution. That's it.

    Nobody will be prosecuted because the public, by and large, is ignorant of what went on.

    See: My Lai.
    Seeing as how Obama already released memos & photos on torture how is he trying to disallow public outrage? Even with the info we've already seen America is split on torture. Some people think it's okay because of 9/11 and some people think people should be prosecuted. Showing rape photos isn't going to make the people who condone torture suddenly change their minds.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    No, we don't. Some people do. Again, the populace is ignorant. Barry himself downplayed how horrible the pictures were. Apparently not scandalous. Prisoners being beated and raped isn't scandalous to him?

    Yes, people need to see. They needed to see caskets coming home from Iraq too.
    Nobody needs to see rape photos, unless it's during a trial. And Obama did what any leader of a nation would do in regards to photos showing his troops raping people. He tried to downplay it. Was it the right move? No. He should've said they are too graphic and we don't want to release them.

    And bringing the caskets into a discussion on rape photos is ridiculous. It's apples and oranges. Not even close to being the same thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post

    It shouldn't.

    it probably would. the US should probably fucking leave iraq, but it won't. It'll sweep this under the carpet, no justice will prevail, the victims will remain unknown and it'll be but a blip in the history books.

    Refusing to prosecute now is tacitly condoning it.

    Frankly, I'm tired of all the reaching Barry's defenders are doing to pretzel this into something that is somehow acceptable.
    The U.S. isn't going to leave Iraq anytime soon, even though we should. And I can see the point of lack of prosecution and condoning something. That's a good point.

    And I'm tired of liberals who are pissy that Obama doesn't see the world through the same narrow liberal prism bitching about everything he does that isn't staunchly liberal. The liberals are becoming just as bad as the people on the right. I haven't agreed with everything Obama's done, and he has made mistakes. But I'm not going to blast him because he hasn't done everything the way I think he should, because no president ever will.

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