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Thread: Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds

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    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    Default Conservative radio host gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds

    The Raw Story Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before saying its torture

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUkj9pjx3H0[/youtube]

    YouTube comment: "Just wanted to point out that this isn't what waterboarding is like--it's actually much worse. For one, the cloth actually does cover your mouth, and your nose typically isn't held closed. And you aren't allowed to thrash around like this, you are restrained. And you aren't surrounded by your friends in a studio, you are surrounded by men shouting at you in a language you don't understand after not being allowed to sleep for three days in some dungeon. And it doesn't stop when you ask it to."

    Conservative radio hosts gets waterboarded, and lasts six seconds before saying its torture

    Chicago radio host Erich "Mancow" Muller decided he'd get himself waterboarded to prove the technique wasn't torture.

    It didn't turn out that way. "Mancow," in fact, lasted just six or seven seconds before crying foul. Apparently, the experience went pretty badly -- "Witnesses said Muller thrashed on the table, and even instantly threw the toy cow he was holding as his emergency tool to signify when he wanted the experiment to stop," according to NBC Chicago.

    "The average person can take this for 14 seconds," Marine Sergeant Clay South told his audience before he was waterboarded on air. "He's going to wiggle, he's going to scream, he's going to wish he never did this."
    Mancow was set on a 7-foot long table with his legs elevated and his feet tied.
    "I wanted to prove it wasn't torture," Mancow said. "They cut off our heads, we put water on their face...I got voted to do this but I really thought 'I'm going to laugh this off.' "
    The upshot? "It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that's no joke," Mancow told listeners. "It is such an odd feeling to have water poured down your nose with your head back...It was instantaneous...and I don't want to say this: absolutely torture."
    "Absolutely. I mean that's drowning," he added later. "It is the feeling of drowning."
    "If I knew it was gonna be this bad, I would not have done it," he said.

    The 42-year-old radio host is no stranger to controversy. In 2005, he was maligned for saying that then-Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean was "vile," "bloodthirsty," "evil" and "should be kicked out of America."

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    This just makes Hannity look like a bigger pussy for backing out of being waterboarded.

    But the Republicans will find some way to bash this guy.

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    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    I just had to check this out on freerepublic. Most of those people are certifiable nutjobs. The vast majority aren't even trying to say its not torture anymore, just that its justified because we are at war, they're the enemy, and of course conjuring up 9/11 at every turn. Fear, fear, fear - when in doubt, bring up 9/11. There are a few conservatives that are taking issue with it - saying "would you give Obama the same power as Bush to choose who he suspects as a terrorist to torture?" They all keep skirting THAT question, again talking about either 9/11 or how much they hate Mancow. I would be SO embarassed to be a Republican right now, its just disgraceful. I know many great Republicans and I know they don't speak for everyone, but its such a big percentage that its unavoidable to ask good Republicans "why exactly are you supporting such a racist, bigoted, ignorant party?" Because really, to the good conservatives, these asshole people are the face of your party, like it or not. These are the people who are ruining your party in large numbers. You need to splinter away. I just cannot follow the logic of being a Republican anymore. This is a big reason I am an Independent. I can't lend my voice to any party that embraces such ridiculous people on such a large scale.
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    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    "They cut off our heads, we put water on their face.

    What an asshole...but at least he admitted what it was.
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    That's not what I thought "waterboarding" was...I thought it was worse. I thought they tied you to a board like on a seesaw and had a large tub of water they lowered your head into, then pulled you back up, then lowered your head...kind of like a dunking tank. This looks bad (drownining instinct kicking in), but not as bad as I thought.

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    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    It doesn't "look" as bad, but it is worse. When you go in a dunk tank you hold your breath. This is not the same and if our navy seals can only stand 15 seconds at most, that should tell you it's bad.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nana55 View Post
    It doesn't "look" as bad, but it is worse. When you go in a dunk tank you hold your breath. This is not the same and if our navy seals can only stand 15 seconds at most, that should tell you it's bad.
    I know it is very, very bad. But would being dunked in a tank upside down be different/worse? I know a person can hold their breath and blow bubbles out their nose when submerged, but when you are upside down the water will go up your nose regardless and make you feel as if you are drowning anyway.

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    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    There are probably a mixture of techniques, most of which weren't employed in this demonstration. The most obvious difference were that he wasn't tied up, and he could give a signal (which would be obeyed) during the experiment. This guy had it pretty "easy" and yet he still said it was torture.

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    Kudos for him to actually doing it and admitting it. Funny how when it happens to you the tune changes.

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    Keith Olbermann pledges $10,000 donation because Mancow was waterboarded

    Because WLS-AM 890's Erich "Mancow" Muller allowed himself to be waterboarded on Friday, MSNBC's Keith Olbermann said on his "Countdown" program that he will donate $10,000 to charity.

    Muller lasted less than 10 seconds. Olbermann said that he will contribute the money to Veterans of Valor, a charity founded by Sgt. Klay South, who administered the controversial interrogation technique.

    Previously, Olbermann has said he would make a donation of $1,000 for each second Fox News Channel's Sean Hannity lasted while being waterboarded if Hannity followed through on his offer last month to undergo the process for charity. But Olbermann said Friday he is withdrawing his offer to Hannity, whose syndicated radio show also airs on WLS-AM.

    "With today's development, the point is moot," Olbermann said. "Mancow Muller had the guts to put his mouth where his mouth was, and the guts to admit he was dead wrong. As you saw, he not only said it is torture, but that he had nearly drowned as a boy, and it is drowning, and that he would have admitted to anything to make it stop."

    Keith Olbermann pledges $10,000 donation because Mancow was waterboarded | Tower Ticker

    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EoCeAapQqM&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fthinkprogres s.org%2F2009%2F05%2F23%2Foblermann-charity-mancow%2F&feature=player_embedded[/YOUTUBE]
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    Elite Member bychance's Avatar
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    Someone did this experiment themselves. Just reading it sound terrifying.

    Quote Originally Posted by hotncmom View Post
    That's not what I thought "waterboarding" was...I thought it was worse. I thought they tied you to a board like on a seesaw and had a large tub of water they lowered your head into, then pulled you back up, then lowered your head...kind of like a dunking tank. This looks bad (drownining instinct kicking in), but not as bad as I thought.
    Eh. This is a much better experiment seen here, Chris Hitchens is actually strapped restrained to the board and cannot see when he's entering the room.

    Believe Me, It's Torture | vanityfair.com




    The author catches his breath after undergoing his first waterboarding session. Photographs by Gasper Tringale.
    Believe Me, It’s Torture

    What more can be added to the debate over U.S. interrogation methods, and whether waterboarding is torture? Try firsthand experience. The author undergoes the controversial drowning technique, at the hands of men who once trained American soldiers to resist—not inflict—it.

    by Christopher Hitchens August 2008

    Here is the most chilling way I can find of stating the matter. Until recently, “waterboarding” was something that Americans did to other Americans. It was inflicted, and endured, by those members of the Special Forces who underwent the advanced form of training known as sere (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape). In these harsh exercises, brave men and women were introduced to the sorts of barbarism that they might expect to meet at the hands of a lawless foe who disregarded the Geneva Conventions. But it was something that Americans were being trained to resist, not to inflict.

    Exploring this narrow but deep distinction, on a gorgeous day last May I found myself deep in the hill country of western North Carolina, preparing to be surprised by a team of extremely hardened veterans who had confronted their country’s enemies in highly arduous terrain all over the world. They knew about everything from unarmed combat to enhanced interrogation and, in exchange for anonymity, were going to show me as nearly as possible what real waterboarding might be like.



    View a video of Hitchens’s waterboarding experience.

    [youtube]4LPubUCJv58[/youtube]

    It goes without saying that I knew I could stop the process at any time, and that when it was all over I would be released into happy daylight rather than returned to a darkened cell. But it’s been well said that cowards die many times before their deaths, and it was difficult for me to completely forget the clause in the contract of indemnification that I had signed. This document (written by one who knew) stated revealingly:


    “Water boarding” is a potentially dangerous activity in which the participant can receive serious and permanent (physical, emotional and psychological) injuries and even death, including injuries and death due to the respiratory and neurological systems of the body.

    As the agreement went on to say, there would be safeguards provided “during the ‘water boarding’ process, however, these measures may fail and even if they work properly they may not prevent Hitchens from experiencing serious injury or death.”


    On the night before the encounter I got to sleep with what I thought was creditable ease, but woke early and knew at once that I wasn’t going back to any sort of doze or snooze. The first specialist I had approached with the scheme had asked my age on the telephone and when told what it was (I am 59) had laughed out loud and told me to forget it. Waterboarding is for Green Berets in training, or wiry young jihadists whose teeth can bite through the gristle of an old goat. It’s not for wheezing, paunchy scribblers.



    For my current “handlers” I had had to produce a doctor’s certificate assuring them that I did not have asthma, but I wondered whether I should tell them about the 15,000 cigarettes I had inhaled every year for the last several decades. I was feeling apprehensive, in other words, and beginning to wish I hadn’t given myself so long to think about it.


    I have to be opaque about exactly where I was later that day, but there came a moment when, sitting on a porch outside a remote house at the end of a winding country road, I was very gently yet firmly grabbed from behind, pulled to my feet, pinioned by my wrists (which were then cuffed to a belt), and cut off from the sunlight by having a black hood pulled over my face. I was then turned around a few times, I presume to assist in disorienting me, and led over some crunchy gravel into a darkened room. Well, mainly darkened: there were some oddly spaced bright lights that came as pinpoints through my hood. And some weird music assaulted my ears. (I’m no judge of these things, but I wouldn’t have expected former Special Forces types to be so fond of New Age techno-disco.) The outside world seemed very suddenly very distant indeed.


    Arms already lost to me, I wasn’t able to flail as I was pushed onto a sloping board and positioned with my head lower than my heart. (That’s the main point: the angle can be slight or steep.) Then my legs were lashed together so that the board and I were one single and trussed unit. Not to bore you with my phobias, but if I don’t have at least two pillows I wake up with acid reflux and mild sleep apnea, so even a merely supine position makes me uneasy.



    And, to tell you something I had been keeping from myself as well as from my new experimental friends, I do have a fear of drowning that comes from a bad childhood moment on the Isle of Wight, when I got out of my depth. As a boy reading the climactic torture scene of 1984, where what is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world, I realize that somewhere in my version of that hideous chamber comes the moment when the wave washes over me. Not that that makes me special: I don’t know anyone who likes the idea of drowning. As mammals we may have originated in the ocean, but water has many ways of reminding us that when we are in it we are out of our element. In brief, when it comes to breathing, give me good old air every time.


    You may have read by now the official lie about this treatment, which is that it “simulates” the feeling of drowning. This is not the case. You feel that you are drowning because you are drowning—or, rather, being drowned, albeit slowly and under controlled conditions and at the mercy (or otherwise) of those who are applying the pressure.



    The “board” is the instrument, not the method. You are not being boarded. You are being watered. This was very rapidly brought home to me when, on top of the hood, which still admitted a few flashes of random and worrying strobe light to my vision, three layers of enveloping towel were added. In this pregnant darkness, head downward, I waited for a while until I abruptly felt a slow cascade of water going up my nose. Determined to resist if only for the honor of my navy ancestors who had so often been in peril on the sea, I held my breath for a while and then had to exhale and—as you might expect—inhale in turn. The inhalation brought the damp cloths tight against my nostrils, as if a huge, wet paw had been suddenly and annihilatingly clamped over my face. Unable to determine whether I was breathing in or out, and flooded more with sheer panic than with mere water, I triggered the pre-arranged signal and felt the unbelievable relief of being pulled upright and having the soaking and stifling layers pulled off me. I find I don’t want to tell you how little time I lasted.


    This is because I had read that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, invariably referred to as the “mastermind” of the atrocities of September 11, 2001, had impressed his interrogators by holding out for upwards of two minutes before cracking. (By the way, this story is not confirmed. My North Carolina friends jeered at it. “Hell,” said one, “from what I heard they only washed his damn face before he babbled.”) But, hell, I thought in my turn, no Hitchens is going to do worse than that. Well, O.K., I admit I didn’t outdo him. And so then I said, with slightly more bravado than was justified, that I’d like to try it one more time.



    There was a paramedic present who checked my racing pulse and warned me about adrenaline rush. An interval was ordered, and then I felt the mask come down again. Steeling myself to remember what it had been like last time, and to learn from the previous panic attack, I fought down the first, and some of the second, wave of nausea and terror but soon found that I was an abject prisoner of my gag reflex. The interrogators would hardly have had time to ask me any questions, and I knew that I would quite readily have agreed to supply any answer.



    I still feel ashamed when I think about it. Also, in case it’s of interest, I have since woken up trying to push the bedcovers off my face, and if I do anything that makes me short of breath I find myself clawing at the air with a horrible sensation of smothering and claustrophobia. No doubt this will pass.



    As if detecting my misery and shame, one of my interrogators comfortingly said, “Any time is a long time when you’re breathing water.” I could have hugged him for saying so, and just then I was hit with a ghastly sense of the sadomasochistic dimension that underlies the relationship between the torturer and the tortured. I apply the Abraham Lincoln test for moral casuistry: “If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong.” Well, then, if waterboarding does not constitute torture, then there is no such thing as torture.

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    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    I had seen the video, but not read Hitchens' commentary. Thanks for posting.

    It doesn't matter how dinky the water pitcher looks or that it's "just water." The moment where you go for air and get water instead is indescribable, you have to feel it to understand completely what is happening.

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    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotncmom View Post
    That's not what I thought "waterboarding" was...I thought it was worse. I thought they tied you to a board like on a seesaw and had a large tub of water they lowered your head into, then pulled you back up, then lowered your head...kind of like a dunking tank. This looks bad (drownining instinct kicking in), but not as bad as I thought.
    That is what it is. This guy didn't get the full monty because he's obviously some pussy conservative.
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    Elite Member Moongirl's Avatar
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    Olbermann, Mancow Interview: Mancow Discusses Being Waterboarded (VIDEO)

    Keith Olbermann interviewed conservative radio host Erich "Mancow" Muller tonight about his experience being waterboarded. Mancow said he agreed to be interviewed because Olbermann is a "stand up guy" for agreeing to donate $10,000 to a charity benefiting veterans (an offer previously extended to Sean Hannity) after Mancow was waterboarded.

    Mancow reaffirmed that the practice was indeed torture and said that his "psychological state" going into the experiment was that he was "laughing at it. I was willing to prove, and ready to prove, that this was a joke, and I was wrong. It was horrific. It was instantaneous. And look, I felt the effects for two days."

    Mancow also revealed that his friend Sean Hannity "called me and said 'it's still not torture.'"

    msnbc.com Video Player

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    If Hannity still doesn't think it's torture then why doesn't he man up and go through it already?

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