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Thread: Obama nominee for US ambassador to China has to spread Mormonism there

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Red face Obama nominee for US ambassador to China has to spread Mormonism there

    Well this should go over well. As the Utah state representative explained in a Web posting that was quickly removed - unfortunately for him, Google lives on - soon to be US Ambassador to China, Republican governor of Utah Jon Huntsman, himself a Mormon, is under ecclesiastical mandate to proselytize to the Chinese when he goes to there to be Obama's ambassador. He has no choice.

    Let Huntsman deny it. Let Obama deny it. It doesn't matter. Our next Ambassador to China will be using his post to try to convert the Chinese to Mormonism, and more generally, to let the Mormons into China where they can then run around the country and spread their ideology.

    I suspect the Chinese, not know for their tolerance of dissident groups trying to indoctrinate their people, are going to flip.

    Here is what the Utah state rep. wrote:


    This is a big deal for the Governor, Utah, the United States, and…the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS).

    Although the LDS church’s missionary program has an ecclesiastical presence throughout many parts of the world, the countries with the largest population bases (China and India) are not currently open to the church’s missionary efforts. Huntsman served his LDS mission as a 19 year old young man in the Taiwan Taipei Mission in the early 1980’s. He has since been back to the Far East on a number of occasions. Huntsman not only takes to China his political acumen but also a lifetime of membership in the LDS church. This should bode well for the LDS church’s mission to spread the gospel throughout the world, since all members of the LDS faith are under divine mandate to…”Go ye therefore, and teach all nations…” (Matt 28:19)

    Huntsman’s ambassadorship not only puts him in an excellent position to address US-China relations, it puts him in an even better position to teach the gospel…in Mandarin.



    And let me explain one more time. We are not dealing with a religion that believes in "live and let live." We are not dealing with people who tell the truth when they say "don't worry, we won't really impose our views on you." The Mormons have spent the past two decades secretly baptizing dead Jewish Holocaust victims and forcibly converting them to Mormonism against the wishes of their immediate families, even though they promised publicly that they'd no longer do it. This is a group of people who think nothing of dropping tens of millions of dollars to impose their views on people who live far away from them in distant lands.

    It doesn't matter what Huntsman now tells us. The Mormons have a tenet in their faith called "lying for the lord." It means they outright lie when asked about their church, in order to protect and promote their church. And as we've seen with their treatment of the Holocaust victims, and their absurd excuse for why they secretly baptized President Obama's mother only last year, in matters concerning their faith, they have shown that you cannot trust them at their word. Their promises come second to their faith.

    If Jon Hunstman is required by God to secretly help the Mormons infiltrate China - and he is - then that is what Jon Huntsman will do as our next Ambassador to China. You can bet on it. Pity the poor Chinese. They have no idea what's about to happen to them.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    I knew there would be a Mormon angle when this was announced the other day

    China will treat him like they treat Falun Gong
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    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    The writer of this article doesn't know jack shit about the Huntsman, the Mormons or Utah. Huntsman ain't an LDS lackey unlike the STATE rep Craig Frank, who wrote the article and is from the Provo area. Provo is the home of BYU. Of course the man from Provo is going to write up shit like this. That's a heavy fundamentalist Mormon area. Not a surprise. He'd probably write the same thing if Huntsman was named Commerce Secretary.

    If Huntsman was such a LDS Church lackey, then he wouldn't have worked with the legislature this year to relax liquor laws and allow BARS to exist in Utah. That's right. BARS. Because in Utah, up until this summer when the new law takes effect, there aren't bars there are only "private clubs" where you can puchase alcoholic drinks AFTER you sign in as a member or have a member sponsor you for a temporary membership. Or the fact that Huntsman tried to get the Utah legislature to pass some bills for gays' civil rights this year. Something we all know that the LDS hierarchy isn't supportive of.

    This article is so ridiculous. Did it not dawn on the writer that there are already Mormons who work in the State Department and in embassies overseas? They don't go overseas and prosletyze because if they do they'll be fired. Not to mention they know the difference between being on a mission and working for the government.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    He's going to spread Mormonism? That's like saying that Mitt Romney spread Mormonism when he was a governor and would have spread it as president.

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    Elite Member Ravenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    This article is so ridiculous. Did it not dawn on the writer that there are already Mormons who work in the State Department and in embassies overseas? They don't go overseas and prosletyze because if they do they'll be fired. Not to mention they know the difference between being on a mission and working for the government.
    I agree.

    Pity the poor Chinese. They have no idea what's about to happen to them.
    This is so hyperbolic. He writes as though Mormons would descend upon China by the millions and convert by the sword. Even if China were opened up to Mormon missionaries, the Chinese would have no problem ignoring them just as the rest of the world outside of America does.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenna View Post
    I agree.

    This is so hyperbolic. He writes as though Mormons would descend upon China by the millions and convert by the sword. Even if China were opened up to Mormon missionaries, the Chinese would have no problem ignoring them just as the rest of the world outside of America does.

    The rest of the world doesn't ignore them though. That's why their missionaries are unwelcome in mainland China and India. The governments don't want them getting a foothold

    I've seen mormon temples in weird places.....Taipei, Hong Kong, Guatemala, Brazil, Mexico, Switzerland. There are tons overseas, in places people would definitely not expect.

    Outside of Islam, it is the fastest growing religion on the planet....due to the missions

    while this man may not be out to convert, mormons as a church are. it's a basic tenet of the faith.


    FACTBOX: Mormonism a growing religion


    (Reuters) - Mormonism is growing in Latin America where new members are attracted by such factors as the church's affluence and stability, as well as its family image and the belief that Jesus Christ visited the Americas after he was resurrected.

    The following are facts about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as the Mormon church is formally called:

    * The once-isolated group, based in Salt Lake City, Utah, is one of the fastest-growing and most affluent religions. More than half of its 13.5 million members live outside the United States.

    * The Mormon flock is flourishing in Latin America, especially in Mexico and Brazil, with some 5.2 million members and 5,500 chapels.

    * The Mormon church has distinctly American origins. It was founded in 1830 in upstate New York by Joseph Smith, who said he received the word of God from an angel named Moroni, who guided him to tablets that told the story of the Book of Mormon about an ancient civilization of Israelites sent by God to America. A year later, he was persecuted and forced to flee to the Midwest, where he was killed. His followers then undertook a mass 1,100-mile (1,800-km) migration in 1846-47 to Utah.

    * Mormons have three books of scripture other than the Bible. One is the Book of Mormon, which Mormons believe was translated from golden plates discovered by Smith. Adherents decline to use alcohol, coffee and tobacco.

    * The Mormon church originally allowed polygamy. The custom was officially banned in 1890 when Washington, angered by its spread, threatened to deny statehood to Utah. Today, Mormon leaders distance themselves from about 40,000 breakaway Mormons in Utah and nearby states who illegally continue the practice.

    * Today, about 50,000 missionaries -- often young men in business suits walking the world's streets in pairs -- project a wholesome, family-oriented image that has helped swell global Mormon adherents by 36 percent from 1995 to 2005.

    FACTBOX: Mormonism a growing religion | Lifestyle | Reuters
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Slightly OT...but this is definitely the funniest missionary story:

    In 1977, in Ewell, Surrey, England, a young Mormon missionary named Kirk Anderson went missing, allegedly abducted from the steps of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints there. A few days later a freed Anderson made a report to the police that he had been abducted, driven to Devon, and imprisoned against his will, chained to a bed in a cottage, where he alleged that Joyce Bernann McKinney (b August 1949), a former Miss Wyoming had abducted, attempted to seduce, and then raped him. The case became known by many sobriquets, including "The Mormon sex in chains case" and "The Case of the Manacled Mormon".

    The coverage in British newspapers in the final months of 1977 was extensive and highly prominent. Many newspapers sought to obtain "scoops" on the story, and also to undermine other newspapers' when they managed to obtain and publish exclusive information. One example of this was the Daily Mirror, which researched McKinney's past and reported finding that she had been a nude model. It ran an exclusive story stating this for several days. The Daily Mail attempted to devalue the Mirror's reports by advertising itself as "The paper without Joyce McKinney."

    Whitaker observes that the case provided "light relief" for the newspaper reading public, from more serious stories about politicians. Wilkes states that the coverage of the case "cheered Britain up no end". A Church of Scotland working party on obscenity in 1979 observed the "gusto" with which newspapers covered and followed the case, noting the accompaniment of the coverage by "the kind of illustration which a decade ago would have been under plain sealed cover".

    The coverage was extensive in part because the case was considered so anomalous, involving as it did the issue of rape of a man by a woman. Backhouse and Cohen reported in 1978 that many men, privately, expressed their disbelief of such a possibility.

    The case was documented in a book by Anthony Delano in 1978, Joyce McKinney and the Manacled Mormon.

    McKinney vigorously denied the charges, despite being arrested and taken to court. While being taken to Epsom for a court appearance, McKinney held up a notice stating "Kirk left with me willingly!" from the windows of the police vehicle.Press reports and McKinney's lawyer refer to the substantial size differential between McKinney, described as slightly built, and Anderson, described as substantially larger.

    Along with alleged co-conspirator Keith May, McKinney jumped bail and fled the country. On 1979-07-18, they were both arrested by the FBI in the United States on charges of making false statements in order to obtain passports. They both received suspended sentences.

    No extradition proceedings were instituted by Britain in the U.S. but McKinney was sentenced in her absence by the English court to a year in jail. Under the then current Sexual Offences Act 1956 there was no crime of rape committed, though Indecent Assault on a Man applied.

    In 1984 McKinney was again subject of police action for allegedly stalking Anderson's workplace.

    In 2008 the name Bernann McKinney hit the news for having her pet dog cloned in Korea. Journalists have attempted to tie the two incidents together in articles either noting or declaring some facial similarity. Some reports considered the two to be the same person. Some reports carried Bernann McKinney's denial that she is the 1977 alleged rapist. The International Herald Tribune carried an admission by McKinney that she is the person named in the 1977 case.

    Anderson is, as of 2009, a real estate agent, and shies away from publicity. McKinney is reported to have become wheelchair bound, and lives in Newland, in the western North Carolina mountains.

    Mormon sex in chains case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Elite Member Ravenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    The rest of the world doesn't ignore them though. That's why their missionaries are unwelcome in mainland China and India. The governments don't want them getting a foothold

    I've seen mormon temples in weird places.....Taipei, Hong Kong, Guatemala, Brazil, Mexico, Switzerland. There are tons overseas, in places people would definitely not expect.

    Outside of Islam, it is the fastest growing religion on the planet....due to the missions

    while this man may not be out to convert, mormons as a church are. it's a basic tenet of the faith.
    Yes, they've got lots of temples all over the world, but how many of them are seeing a lot of activity? I don't believe these numbers reflect the reality; it's just the Mormon PR machine at work. They love to broadcast these numbers and proclaim they are one of the fastest growing religions in the world. But how many of those who are baptized ever come back? It would take too much time to hunt down a source so I'm just citing from memory here: only something like 20% of people in South America who have been baptized into the Mormon church actually identify themselves as being Mormon. Some allow themselves to be baptized just to be polite. I've heard stories of mass baptisms of children in Asia who didn't really know what they were doing and whose parents had no idea, just so the missionaries could go home and boast about their numbers (IIRC this was in the 80's and they may have clamped down on behavior like that since then, but their names will still be counted amongst the millions). The people they've lost track of are counted as living members until what would be their 110th birthday. Mormons have more children than average. There are a lot of things that skew the numbers. I don't believe they are really all that successful with their little missions and I don't think the Mormon church could ever become a major influence in China.
    Last edited by Ravenna; May 20th, 2009 at 02:35 PM.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenna View Post
    I don't believe they are really all that successful with their little missions and I don't think the Mormon church could ever become a major influence in China.
    this is definitely true, because the Chinese aren't really succeptible to a belief in that type of a god.....the culture, and the years of thinking behind it sort of immunize them to it. Of course, not all of them( some do become Christian), but a solid majority.

    The belief in chi is so ingrained, culturally and in the individual, that the thought of a man/god is just too weird for them.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    The writer of this article doesn't know jack shit about the Huntsman, the Mormons or Utah. Huntsman ain't an LDS lackey unlike the STATE rep Craig Frank, who wrote the article and is from the Provo area. Provo is the home of BYU. Of course the man from Provo is going to write up shit like this. That's a heavy fundamentalist Mormon area. Not a surprise. He'd probably write the same thing if Huntsman was named Commerce Secretary.

    If Huntsman was such a LDS Church lackey, then he wouldn't have worked with the legislature this year to relax liquor laws and allow BARS to exist in Utah. That's right. BARS. Because in Utah, up until this summer when the new law takes effect, there aren't bars there are only "private clubs" where you can puchase alcoholic drinks AFTER you sign in as a member or have a member sponsor you for a temporary membership. Or the fact that Huntsman tried to get the Utah legislature to pass some bills for gays' civil rights this year. Something we all know that the LDS hierarchy isn't supportive of.

    This article is so ridiculous. Did it not dawn on the writer that there are already Mormons who work in the State Department and in embassies overseas? They don't go overseas and prosletyze because if they do they'll be fired. Not to mention they know the difference between being on a mission and working for the government.
    This makes more sense. Thank you, Fluffy. Kind of a pity-after all the bad stuff they have been shipping us,it would have been well deserved.
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    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    The rest of the world doesn't ignore them though. That's why their missionaries are unwelcome in mainland China and India. The governments don't want them getting a foothold

    I've seen mormon temples in weird places.....Taipei, Hong Kong, Guatemala, Brazil, Mexico, Switzerland. There are tons overseas, in places people would definitely not expect.

    Outside of Islam, it is the fastest growing religion on the planet....due to the missions

    while this man may not be out to convert, mormons as a church are. it's a basic tenet of the faith.


    FACTBOX: Mormonism a growing religion


    (Reuters) - Mormonism is growing in Latin America where new members are attracted by such factors as the church's affluence and stability, as well as its family image and the belief that Jesus Christ visited the Americas after he was resurrected.

    The following are facts about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as the Mormon church is formally called:

    * The once-isolated group, based in Salt Lake City, Utah, is one of the fastest-growing and most affluent religions. More than half of its 13.5 million members live outside the United States.

    * The Mormon flock is flourishing in Latin America, especially in Mexico and Brazil, with some 5.2 million members and 5,500 chapels.

    * The Mormon church has distinctly American origins. It was founded in 1830 in upstate New York by Joseph Smith, who said he received the word of God from an angel named Moroni, who guided him to tablets that told the story of the Book of Mormon about an ancient civilization of Israelites sent by God to America. A year later, he was persecuted and forced to flee to the Midwest, where he was killed. His followers then undertook a mass 1,100-mile (1,800-km) migration in 1846-47 to Utah.

    * Mormons have three books of scripture other than the Bible. One is the Book of Mormon, which Mormons believe was translated from golden plates discovered by Smith. Adherents decline to use alcohol, coffee and tobacco.

    * The Mormon church originally allowed polygamy. The custom was officially banned in 1890 when Washington, angered by its spread, threatened to deny statehood to Utah. Today, Mormon leaders distance themselves from about 40,000 breakaway Mormons in Utah and nearby states who illegally continue the practice.

    * Today, about 50,000 missionaries -- often young men in business suits walking the world's streets in pairs -- project a wholesome, family-oriented image that has helped swell global Mormon adherents by 36 percent from 1995 to 2005.

    FACTBOX: Mormonism a growing religion | Lifestyle | Reuters
    Like Ravenna said, numbers can be skewed quite a bit by a number of things overseas; although, they have had quite a bit of success in America Samoa. Go figure. Mormons will often still count people who have formally left as "Mormon." These people are still included in their numbers. Also, "Jack Mormons" are also included. Jack Mormons are even less Mormon than lapsed Catholics are Catholic--they were born into Mormon families, yet never attend church and may not have even had a "temple" wedding, which means they don't wear "temple garments" (aka Mormon underwear). They drink alcohol and coffee. Basically, you wouldn't notice anything Mormon-y about them except they may call themselves Mormon. There are a lot of Jack Mormons, even in Utah.

    Also, I'd make a distinction between Utah (& southern Idaho) Mormons and Mormons who live in other states. (This applies only to regular Mormons, not the offshoots who still practice polygamy in their own compounds.) Mormons who live outside of Utah & southern Idaho tend to not have the strict adherence to what the Mormon church says. They're less likely to go on missions than those coming from Utah. They're also less likely to strictly adhere to what "the Church" says. Mitt Romney is sort of an example of this. He was pro-choice until he had to do a 180 and be "pro-life" to capitulate the GOP base when he was seeking the Republican nomination.

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