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Thread: 16-year-old denied due process thanks to the Patriot Act

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    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    Default 16-year-old denied due process thanks to the Patriot Act

    Oxford, N.C. Sixteen-year-old Ashton Lundeby's bedroom in his mother's Granville County home is nothing, if not patriotic. Images of American flags are everywhere on the bed, on the floor, on the wall.

    But according to the United States government, the tenth-grade home-schooler is being held on a criminal complaint that he made a bomb threat from his home on the night of Feb. 15.

    Ashton Lundeby
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    Teen's mom questions Patriot Act


    The family was at a church function that night, his mother, Annette Lundeby, said.

    "Undoubtedly, they were given false information, or they would not have had 12 agents in my house with a widow and two children and three cats," Lundeby said.

    Around 10 p.m. on March 5, Lundeby said, armed FBI agents along with three local law enforcement officers stormed her home looking for her son. They handcuffed him and presented her with a search warrant.

    "I was terrified," Lundeby's mother said. "There were guns, and I don't allow guns around my children. I don't believe in guns."

    Lundeby told the officers that someone had hacked into her son's IP address and was using it to make crank calls connected through the Internet, making it look like the calls had originated from her home when they did not.

    Her argument was ignored, she said. Agents seized a computer, a cell phone, gaming console, routers, bank statements and school records, according to federal search warrants.

    "There were no bomb-making materials, not even a blasting cap, not even a wire," Lundeby said.

    Ashton now sits in a juvenile facility in South Bend, Ind. His mother has had little access to him since his arrest. She has gone to her state representatives as well as attorneys, seeking assistance, but, she said, there is nothing she can do.

    Lundeby said the USA Patriot Act stripped her son of his due process rights.

    "We have no rights under the Patriot Act to even defend them, because the Patriot Act basically supersedes the Constitution," she said. "It wasn't intended to drag your barely 16-year-old, 120-pound son out in the middle of the night on a charge that we can't even defend."

    Passed after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the U.S., the Patriot Act allows federal agents to investigate suspected cases of terrorism swiftly to better protect the country. In part, it gives the federal government more latitude to search telephone records, e-mails and other records.

    "They're saying that 'We feel this individual is a terrorist or an enemy combatant against the United States, and we're going to suspend all of those due process rights because this person is an enemy of the United States," said Dan Boyce, a defense attorney and former U.S. attorney not connected to the Lundeby case.

    Critics of the statute say it threatens the most basic of liberties.

    "There's nothing a matter of public record," Boyce said "All those normal rights are just suspended in the air."

    In a bi-partisan effort, Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., and Rep. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., last month introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives a bill that would narrow subpoena power in a provision of the Patriot Act, called the National Security Letters, to curb what some consider to be abuse of power by federal law enforcement officers.

    Boyce said the Patriot Act was written with good intentions, but he said he believes it has gone too far in some cases. Lundeby's might be one of them, he said.

    "It very well could be a case of overreaction, where an agent leaped to certain conclusions or has made certain assumptions about this individual and about how serious the threat really is," Boyce said.

    Because a federal judge issued a gag order in the case, the U.S. attorney in Indiana cannot comment on the case, nor can the FBI. The North Carolina Highway Patrol did confirm that officers assisted with the FBI operation at the Lundeby home on March 5.

    "Never in my worst nightmare did I ever think that it would be my own government that I would have to protect my children from," Lundeby said. "This is the United States, and I feel like I live in a third world country now."

    Lundeby said she does not think this type of case is what the Patriot Act was intended for. Boyce agrees.

    "It was to protect the public, but what we need to do is to make sure there are checks and balances to make sure those new laws are not abused," he said.Mom says Patriot Act stripped son of due process :: WRAL.com
    I think it's high time that idiotic 'Act' was repealed. I have no idea whether the kid was up to no good or not but either way he, like every American, deserves the right to defend himself and have due process.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Since he is a minor, his parents need to see him. This whole thing seems wierd & wrong.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

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    Elite Member suede's Avatar
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    This caught my eye and makes me wonder what the whole story is and if this was previously reported or just something the mother was spouting off the top of her head.
    Lundeby told the officers that someone had hacked into her son's IP address and was using it to make crank calls connected through the Internet, making it look like the calls had originated from her home when they did not.
    I do not believe that such action would be taken over some kind of prank being played on her son. That's not to say that her son is guilty of anything but at the same time I don't think they showed up at their door with warrants for nothing either.

    I have to admit though the second I saw "church function" I rolled my eyes - because we all know that Church goers couldn't possibly do anything illegal right?

    He's being American doesn't mean anything because a Terrorist can also be domestic and that is covered by the Patriot Act.
    He who knows does not speak.
    He who speaks does not know.
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    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    Maybe they showed up with warrants for a good reason or maybe they didn't but even if he had been making threats, why can't his family see him? Why can't an attorney see him? Why do they feel the need to remove due process? There's no way that makes anybody more secure and it gives the paranoid government fearing/hating nutbars something to latch onto which in turn leads to Timothy McVeighs. Bad move.
    "But I am very poorly today & very stupid & I hate everybody & everything." -- Charles Darwin

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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^^
    exactly. it doesn't matter if the kid's guilty or not. he's allowed due process.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    First off this isn't the whole story. The boy had a federal hearing at 10:00 am the morning after being arrested. Under, I believe it's section 802, they are allowed to detain him until they can sort out the evidence. It think it's best to have one person very uncomfortable, than many more dead from a bombinb. Also, the mother was handed a search warrant when the cops entered, but even before the Pat Act, a search warrant is not needed in NC if there is probable cause. Not to say that the defense attorney won't try to suppress any type of evidence that was found, but it can be done.

    Oh, and the mother has been allowed to talk to her. His last gripe was he was being picked on for looking around while eating his lunch.

    Also, I don't see these officer's just picking this random child. I just don't think he's what his mother wants to portray him as.

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    Elite Member cynic's Avatar
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    ...home schooling results in kids who do not know how to function in society.....

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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    yeah and a kid with his country's flags all over the room isn't exactly a sign of 'normal'... more like unabomber jr. but regardless, still no reason to deny him due process.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    I don't think they are denying him due process, they are just holding him to gather the facts. The amount of time they are able to hold him is just greater than it is for other non-serious charges.
    Police can hold anyone for a certain amount of time.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    what IS that amount of time, exactly, without access to legal counsel outside of the patriot act?

    Is the patriot act actually involved here?

    if it is, i told ya'll it was gonna be used against the regular citizenry.. slippery slope! SLIPPERY SLOPE!
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    ^ He has legal counsel. He was given an attorney, which appeared in court with him the day after he was arrested.
    It really helps to get the whole story.....there is more to this case than posted. Do I think this guy is capable of taking down the world, no. Do I think he's a little, spoiled ass, intelligent prick? Yes.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    slipppppppppppppppppppppppperyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy slopppppppppppppppppppppe
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Honestly? It gives me the heebie-jeebies.

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    Elite Member MontanaMama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie View Post
    First off this isn't the whole story. The boy had a federal hearing at 10:00 am the morning after being arrested. Under, I believe it's section 802, they are allowed to detain him until they can sort out the evidence. It think it's best to have one person very uncomfortable, than many more dead from a bombinb. Also, the mother was handed a search warrant when the cops entered, but even before the Pat Act, a search warrant is not needed in NC if there is probable cause. Not to say that the defense attorney won't try to suppress any type of evidence that was found, but it can be done.

    Oh, and the mother has been allowed to talk to her. His last gripe was he was being picked on for looking around while eating his lunch.

    Also, I don't see these officer's just picking this random child. I just don't think he's what his mother wants to portray him as.

    No, under the US Constitution (which supercedes state law) ALL law enforcement is required to have an arrest warrant to arrest someone in their home. In order to secure an arrest warrant, officers have to show probable cause to the judge. Same rules apply for searching someone's home. The asshat Patriot Act (which is the single most un-American piece of shit legislation since they interred Japanese-Americans during WWII) allows secret warrants and all sorts of other ridiculous ways to get around constitutional protections. But they still had to have a warrant to arrest the kid and seach his house...even if it was an emergency situation, the search could ONLY extend to the kid's immediate reach area, anything beyond that requires a warrant, even in NC.

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    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    ^ haha, I have done this kind of work for 16 years. I KNOW the law in my state. Officer's do NOT have to have a warrant to enter your home. Now, they will have to provide one at some point, but if there is probable cause, they can enter your home without a warrant.

    Entering and arresting are two entirely different matters. A search warrant is not needed just to arrest someone. An officer can go to anyone house with a warrant, enter, take down, and arrest you without a search warrant. But either way, these officer's had the necessary paper when they entered, so that's neither here nor there in this case.
    Last edited by Sweetie; May 7th, 2009 at 02:02 PM.

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