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Thread: Condi Rice gets into heated exchange with student and defends torture

  1. #1
    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Default Condi Rice gets into heated exchange with student and defends torture

    Condi Rice defends enhanced interrogation as "legal" and "right"

    Thu, 04/30/2009 - 12:05pm

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijEED_iviTA[/youtube]
    ^^ the video is awesome. She's a condescending jerk to the kid.

    With a hat-tip to our incoming intern Michael Wilkerson, here's tape of former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice defending the Bush administration enhanced interrogation policies -- which she insists never led to torture -- speaking off-the-cuff at a Stanford University dorm.

    Here's a really quick transcript:
    Q: How are we supposed to continue promoting America as this guiding light of democracy and how are we supposed to win hearts and minds in the world as long as we continue with these actions?
    Rice: Well, first of all, you do what's right. That's the most important thing -- that you make a judgment of what's right. And in terms of enhanced interrogation, and rendition, and all the issues around the detainees. Abu Ghraib is, and everyone said, Abu Ghraib was not policy. Abu Ghraib was wrong and nobody would argue with...

    Except that information that's come out since then speaks against that.
    No, no, no -- the information that's come out since then continues to say that Abu Ghraib was wrong. Abu Ghraib was. But in terms of the enhanced interrogation and so forth, anything that was legal and was going to make this country safer, the president wanted to do. Nothing that was illegal. And nothing that was going to make the country less safe.

    And I'll tell you something. Unless you were there in a position of responsibility after September 11th, you cannot possibly imagine the dilemmas that you faced in trying to protect Americans. And I know a lot of people are second-guessing now, but let me tell you what the second-guessing that would really have hurt me -- if the second-guessing had been about 3,000 more Americans dying because we didn't do everything we could to protect them.

    If you were there in a position of authority, and watched Americans jump out of 80-story buildings because these murderous tyrants went after innocent people, then you were determined to do anything that you could that was legal to prevent that from happening again. And so I think people do understand that.

    Now, as to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and so forth -- I agree with you. We have tried to use the trafficking in persons and all of those measures, human rights reports and so forth, to put a spotlight on the kinds of problems that you have in places like Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or Oman or other places. But you can't -- you don't have the luxury in foreign policy of saying, alright, I won't deal with that country because I don't like its human rights record. You don't have that luxury. So if you need Saudi Arabia to fight al Qaeda internally -- which is by the way where al Qaeda came from -- or if you need Saudi Arabia to be part of a coalition that's going to help bring a Palestinian state, you can't decide not to deal with Saudi Arabia because of its problems with human rights. Or, if you need to make sure that the Gulf is safe from Iranian influence -- you want to talk about human rights abusers? -- Iran.

    I'm well aware.
    Excuse me?

    I'm well aware.
    So, foreign policy is full of tough choices. Very tough choices. The world is not a bunch of easy choices in which you get to make ones that always feel good.

    I'm aware, but...[I'm sorry, we have to move]
    Let him finish, let him finish.

    Even in World War II, as we faced Nazi Germany -- probably the greatest threat that America has ever faced -- even then we didn't torture...
    With all due respect, Nazi Germany never attacked the homeland of the United States.

    No, but they bombed our allies...
    No. Just a second. Three thousand Americans died in the Twin Towers and the Pentagon.

    500,000 died in World War II, and yet we did not torture the prisoners of war.
    And we didn't torture anybody here either. Alright?

    We tortured them in Guantanamo Bay.
    No, no dear, you're wrong. Alright. You're wrong. We did not torture anyone. And Guantanamo Bay, by the way, was considered a model "medium security prison" by representatives of the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe who went there to see it. Did you know that?

    Were they present for the interrogations?

    No. Did you know that the Organization -- just answer me -- did you know that the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe said Guantanamo was a model medium security prison?

    No, but I feel that changes nothing...

    No -- Did you know that?

    I did not know that, but that changes absolutely nothing.
    Alright, no -- if you didn't know that, maybe before you make allegations about Guantanamo you should read.

    Now, the ICRC also had access to Guantanamo, and they made no allegations about interrogations at Guantanamo. What they did say is that they believe indefinite detention, where people didn't know whether they'd come up for trial, which is why we tried with the military commissions system to let people come up for trial. Those trials were stayed by whom? Who kept us from holding the trials?

    I can't answer that question.
    Do your homework first.


    Question from another student: I have a question...
    Yes. The Supreme Court.

    I read a recent report, recently, that said that you did a memo, you were the one who authorized torture to the -- I'm sorry, not torture, waterboarding. Is waterboarding torture?
    The president instructed us that nothing we would do would be outside of our obligations, legal obligations, under the Convention Against torture. So that's -- and by the way, I didn't authorize anything. I conveyed the authorization of the administration to the agency. That they had policy authorization subject to the Justice Department's clearance. That's what I did.

    Okay. Is waterboarding torture?
    I just said -- the United States was told, we were told, nothing that violates our obligations under the Convention Against Torture. And so, by definition, if it was authorized by the president, it did not violate our obligations under the Conventions Against Torture.

    Thank you.
    Alright.
    That's the most articulated defense of enhanced interrogation -- now, we call it torture -- we have from a high-ranking Bush official.

    Condi Rice defends enhanced interrogation as "legal" and "right" | FP Passport

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    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    I love how that first guy tried to act all knowing and got shot down.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    LOL her entire defense is "we changed the definition of torture and legalized it, so no it wasn't torture and it wasn't illegal."

    Stupid twit. I would have torn her ass apart.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie View Post
    I love how that first guy tried to act all knowing and got shot down.
    How was he shot down? Precisely.

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    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    LOL her entire defense is "we changed the definition of torture and legalized it, so no it wasn't torture and it wasn't illegal."

    Stupid twit. I would have torn her ass apart.
    This is it in a nutshell. Same goes for virtually everything in the Bush admin. Anything they didn't like, any laws that got in their way (like the Supreme Court she scoffed at up there like it was some inconvenient gnat)--they changed the rules so they could do whatever they wanted. That's severely fucked up, I don't care how she justifies it now.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Where to start with Condi? She's got a lot of nerve telling the kid to 'do his homework' when she, and the rest of the Bush administration, should've been doing 'their homework' and paid attention to the memos saying that Al-Queda was determined to attack. Too bad no one asked her if Gitmo was so great why are some of the soldiers that worked there describing how shitty it was?'

    The fact that she was a condescending bitch didn't help matters either.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    She's unworthy of her PhD. It should be revoked.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member HWBL's Avatar
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    Doesn't she realize Dubya and her ain't goin' steady no more?
    Warren Beatty: actor, director, writer, producer.

    ***** celeb

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    SVZ
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    Okay. Is waterboarding torture?
    I just said -- the United States was told, we were told, nothing that violates our obligations under the Convention Against Torture. And so, by definition, if it was authorized by the president, it did not violate our obligations under the Conventions Against Torture.
    THAT...THAT is their argument?! That's what 3 year olds do

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    Silver Member gardenofeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVZ View Post
    THAT...THAT is their argument?! That's what 3 year olds do
    Please, my 3 year old is far more sophisticated.

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    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    How was he shot down? Precisely.
    Can you not read, or can you not hear?
    She asked him like 5 times, "did you know that?" to which he replied, "NO"
    If you are going to try to argue with someone, then at least do a little homework before hand.....which he clearly had not done.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    That from the woman with the flimsy defense

    "I altered legal reality to suit my whims, therefore even though the end result is torture, i don't consider it such"

    Uhhuh.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    ^ I'm not saying she's not stupid, or wrong, but he clearly had no idea about what he was talking about.

    Like you said, had you been there, you would not have said "No, I didn't" to every question she asked him.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    No, i would have flayed her on the spot. God it would have been fun. Up one side, down the other, back her stupid ass into a corner and leave her stammering.

    That's if i could have controlled my anger at her condescending tone. I probably would have wanted to haul off on her and belt her one.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    ^That's what I was trying to say. I think they picked the dumbest student at the school to try to debate with her. It was funny because he started out pretty good and then bombed terribly.

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