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Thread: Operatives waterboarded the wrong, brain damaged guy 83 times and got nothing useful

  1. #1
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Operatives waterboarded the wrong, brain damaged guy 83 times and got nothing useful

    Last Saturday, Marcy Wheeler broke the news about the extensive waterboarding of two captured terror suspects:


    I've put this detail in a series of posts, but it really deserves a full post. According to the May 30, 2005 Bradbury memo, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in March 2003 and Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times in August 2002.

    On page 37 of the OLC memo, in a passage discussing the differences between SERE techniques and the torture used with detainees, the memo explains...

    The CIA used the waterboard "at least 83 times during August 2002" in the interrogation of Zubaydah. IG Report at 90, and 183 times during March 2003 in the interrogation of KSM, see id. at 91.

    Note, the information comes from the CIA IG report which, in the case of Abu Zubaydah, is based on having viewed the torture tapes as well as other materials. So this is presumably a number that was once backed up by video evidence.




    Last month, the Washington Post provided this backgroud on Abu Zubaydah:



    In the end, though, not a single significant plot was foiled as a result of Abu Zubaida's tortured confessions, according to former senior government officials who closely followed the interrogations. Nearly all of the leads attained through the harsh measures quickly evaporated, while most of the useful information from Abu Zubaida -- chiefly names of al-Qaeda members and associates -- was obtained before waterboarding was introduced, they said.

    Moreover, within weeks of his capture, U.S. officials had gained evidence that made clear they had misjudged Abu Zubaida. President George W. Bush had publicly described him as "al-Qaeda's chief of operations," and other top officials called him a "trusted associate" of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and a major figure in the planning of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. None of that was accurate, the new evidence showed.

    Abu Zubaida was not even an official member of al-Qaeda, according to a portrait of the man that emerges from court documents and interviews with current and former intelligence, law enforcement and military sources. Rather, he was a "fixer" for radical Muslim ideologues, and he ended up working directly with al-Qaeda only after Sept. 11 -- and that was because the United States stood ready to invade Afghanistan.



    And, that article included this tidbit:


    He was seriously wounded by shrapnel from a mortar blast in 1992, sustaining head injuries that left him with severe memory problems, which still linger.



    Yes, he was low-level and brain-damaged. The CIA knew that and waterboarded him 83 times anyway -- because Bush wanted answers.

    Author Ron Suskind in his book, The One Percent Solution, gave the background on Zubaydah. I read that book and found the info. on Zubaydah, who Bush often invoked, just jaw-dropping. Here's a synopsis:


    Abu Zubaydah, his captors discovered, turned out to be mentally ill and nothing like the pivotal figure they supposed him to be. CIA and FBI analysts, poring over a diary he kept for more than a decade, found entries "in the voice of three people: Hani 1, Hani 2, and Hani 3" -- a boy, a young man and a middle-aged alter ego. All three recorded in numbing detail "what people ate, or wore, or trifling things they said." Dan Coleman, then the FBI's top al-Qaeda analyst, told a senior bureau official, "This guy is insane, certifiable, split personality."

    Abu Zubaydah also appeared to know nothing about terrorist operations; rather, he was al-Qaeda's go-to guy for minor logistics -- travel for wives and children and the like. That judgment was "echoed at the top of CIA and was, of course, briefed to the President and Vice President," Suskind writes. And yet somehow, in a speech delivered two weeks later, President Bush portrayed Abu Zubaydah as "one of the top operatives plotting and planning death and destruction on the United States." And over the months to come, under White House and Justice Department direction, the CIA would make him its first test subject for harsh interrogation techniques.



    Bush, with an assist from Alberto Gonzales, allowed the execution of a "mentally retarded" man. It's wasn't a big leap to torturing a brain-injured suspect. They should be really proud of this one.

    AMERICAblog News| A great nation deserves the truth
    lying sacks of shit, every other day they had a new al qaeda leader and nothing ever amounted form it, or was proven false
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  2. #2
    Elite Member NicoleWasHere's Avatar
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    But water boarding the guy probably prevented another 9/11, so it was totally worth it, right?! Right??!

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    another 9/11 hasn't happened since i bought my desk lamp.

    my desk lamp thus prevented another 9/11.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member NicoleWasHere's Avatar
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    OMG it's gotta run in 2012, then! It might prevent the end of the world! Quick, send it out campaigning!

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    Elite Member Aella's Avatar
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    Disgusting and medieval.
    "Remember to always be yourself. Unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

    "The only thing more expensive than education is ignorance." -Benjamin Franklin

  6. #6
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    MY DESK LAMP FOR PRESIDENT

    "You turn it on so often. It lights your way."
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #7
    La vie en rose DitaPage*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleWasHere View Post
    But water boarding the guy probably prevented another 9/11, so it was totally worth it, right?! Right??!


    9/11 only needed to happen once. Now that the war is on, and justified, Al Qaeda have disappeared off the face of the earth. Probably because they never existed in the first place. Fuck Bush; 'Let's fight a war on terrorism.. with terrorism!'


    Quote Originally Posted by Aella
    Disgusting and medieval.
    Exactly.

  8. #8
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    um, no they havent
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  9. #9
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    No Grimm - it's not your desk lamp. We haven't been attacked since I got my cat Samantha. Therefore, getting a new cat is the answer to combatting terrorism. Maybe give the cat a nice lamp to sit under.

    I'm enjoying this logic.

  10. #10
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DitaPage* View Post
    9/11 only needed to happen once. Now that the war is on, and justified, Al Qaeda have disappeared off the face of the earth. Probably because they never existed in the first place. Fuck Bush; 'Let's fight a war on terrorism.. with terrorism!'




    Exactly.
    As much as I hate Dubya no one can say that Al Queda never existed. They were around prior to Dubya becoming president. And they haven't vanished off the face of the earth.

  11. #11
    Elite Member NicoleWasHere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookie View Post
    No Grimm - it's not your desk lamp. We haven't been attacked since I got my cat Samantha. Therefore, getting a new cat is the answer to combatting terrorism. Maybe give the cat a nice lamp to sit under.

    I'm enjoying this logic.

    OMG they could be running mates! ♥

  12. #12
    Silver Member chattykathy's Avatar
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    83?!!!!!
    ""Somebody needs to talk to Alex Castellanos: he may not be doing sex right if he thinks an Obama speech is 'like sex'."~ Rush Limbaugh

  13. #13
    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    Shit. That's insane.
    Just imagine the guys walking in going, "Not this shit again."

  14. #14
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    ^ which personality? lol
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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