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Thread: Bush torture memos released by President Obama: see the complete documents

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    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Default Bush torture memos released by President Obama: see the complete documents

    Bush Torture Memos Released By Obama: See The Complete Documents

    As part of an ongoing court case, the Department of Justice released on Thursday memos issued by the Office of Legal Counsel between 2002 and 2005, detailing techniques used for interrogation of terrorism suspects. In doing so, President Obama declared:
    "While I believe strongly in transparency and accountability, I also believe that in a dangerous world, the United States must sometimes carry out intelligence operations and protect information that is classified for purposes of national security. I have already fought for that principle in court and will do so again in the future. However, after consulting with the Attorney General, the Director of National Intelligence, and others, I believe that exceptional circumstances surround these memos and require their release."
    Certain aspects of the documents are redacted -- including the names of CIA officials -- but the evidence is of enough weight that Senate Judiciary chairman Patrick Leahy already felt compelled to offer the following statement:
    These legal memoranda demonstrate in alarming detail exactly what the Bush administration authorized for "high value detainees" in U.S. custody. The techniques are chilling... We cannot continue to look the other way; we need to understand how these policies were formed if we are to ensure that this can never happen again. This is why my proposal for a for a Commission of Inquiry is necessary.


    Memos viewable online here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_187867.html

    You can download the memos here:
    http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/olc_memos.html


    They are very lengthy, but someone on another forum pulled out this part, which is totally disturbing. Basically, the Bush Admin held that is you didn't intend or believe you were committing torture then you weren't. What BS. Here's a screencap of that portion:


    Last edited by Cali; April 16th, 2009 at 04:26 PM.

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    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Andrew Sullivan weighs in:
    The Banality Of Evil


    Perhaps you are reading these documents alongside me. I've only read the Bybee memo, as chilling an artifact as you are ever likely to read in a democratic society, the work clearly not of a lawyer assessing torture techniques in good faith, but of an administration official tasked with finding how torture techniques already decided upon can be parsed in exquisitely disingenuous ways to fit the law, even when they clearly do not. This is what Hannah Arendt wrote of when she talked of the banality of evil. To read a bureaucrat finding ways to describe and parse away the clear infliction of torture on a terror suspect well outside any "ticking time bomb" scenario is to realize what so many of us feared and sensed from the shards of information we have been piecing together for years. It is all true. These memos form a coda to the Red Cross report, confirming its evidentiary conclusions, while finding exquisite, legalistic and preposterous ways to deny the obvious.
    I do not believe that any American president has ever orchestrated, constructed or so closely monitored the torture of other human beings the way George W. Bush did. It is clear that it is pre-meditated; and it is clear that the parsing of torture techniques that you read in the report is a simply disgusting and repellent piece of dishonesty and bad faith. When you place it alongside the Red Cross' debriefing of the torture victims, the fit is almost perfect. I say "almost" because even Jay Bybee, in this unprofessional travesty of lawyering, stipulates that these techniques might be combined successively in any ways that could cumulatively become torture even in his absurd redefinition of the term. And yet the ICRC report shows, as one might imagine, that outside these specious legalisms, such distinctions cannot hold in practice. And they didn't.
    Bybee is not representing justice in this memo. He is representing the president. And the president is seeking to commit war crimes. And he succeeded. This much we now know beyond any reasonable doubt. It is a very dark day for this country, but less dark than every day until now.
    Stay tuned as I try to unpack and make sense of these documents. There is some feeling of relief that we now have the incontrovertible evidence in front of us. But there is also a feeling of great nausea as well. Look what they did to these suspects. And look what they did to America.


    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/the-banality-of-evil.html

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    It was the darkest era this 60 year old has witnessed - the collapse of freedoms and the blatant disregard for the constitution was breathtaking in i'ts arrogance. The laughing criminals Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush must one day be proscecuted for the crimes against humanity.

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    Elite Member Penny Lane's Avatar
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    The sad part is: it's highly doubtful that Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, Rove et al. will ever be forced to accept culpability or admit wrongdoings for their ethical improprieties while in office. If they weren't the ones holding hoods over the heads of prisoners while beating them or water-boarding them then nothing will ever come of it. I hate to be so cynical, but they've managed to avoid it for almost a decade. It's bullshit.

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    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penny Lane View Post
    The sad part is: it's highly doubtful that Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, Rove et al. will ever be forced to accept culpability or admit wrongdoings for their ethical improprieties while in office. If they weren't the ones holding hoods over the heads of prisoners while beating them or water-boarding them then nothing will ever come of it. I hate to be so cynical, but they've managed to avoid it for almost a decade. It's bullshit.
    Actually, I think the Obama Administration has left the door open for just the opposite. If I'm reading what they said correctly, they've said that the soldiers and people who actually did the torture won't be charged because they were told from the top levels that it was legal at the time.

    But I think that leaves the door open to charge the authors of these heinous memos and the senior officials who actually authorized these tactics.

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    Elite Member sparkly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cali View Post
    Actually, I think the Obama Administration has left the door open for just the opposite. If I'm reading what they said correctly, they've said that the soldiers and people who actually did the torture won't be charged because they were told from the top levels that it was legal at the time.

    But I think that leaves the door open to charge the authors of these heinous memos and the senior officials who actually authorized these tactics.
    I really hope so. Bush and his war mongering buddies need to be held accountable for their actions to the fullest extent of the law.
    Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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    Elite Member Penny Lane's Avatar
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    I sincerely hope they get charged with crimes against humanity because seriously.. these guys are scum of the earth with too much power in their hands. All in the name of modern day imperialism and greed.

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    They're going to be tried right after we get around to trying Henry Kissinger for war crimes....
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    Default Not enough

    If that was a Russian prison the would have run steal needles trough their testicals and gotten all the information years ago.

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    Lets keep going back back, forth and forth.

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