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Thread: Oprah show with black/white doll experiment

  1. #46
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie View Post
    Have they done this experiment with white children picking a doll?
    Maybe white kids like black dolls, that's they way it seems on here. lol
    I agree! I didn't really realize others felt the same!
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  2. #47
    Elite Member Soth's Avatar
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    Most children at that level of development are still colour oriented, Light to dark. There is no social conciousness involved in this on the part of the kids at all. It is fairly easy to manipulate findings on a basic level to whatever justification you want to throw into the headlines. Were they controlled conditions? was it done in front of the other kids?...what? what?what? I know that if you put a turtle in front of 21 kids and the first one said it was shrek, the next 20 would probably say the same thing....I am curious to a decent study though. Just dont bastardize social change from a 21 child study......Or we will all be villified for non conformism. Just change the bible's colour references and we can all get along (God vs Satan)

  3. #48
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    It would be more interesting to conduct this experiment in a culture where there has been minimal exposure to mainstream media and where the society is more homogenous.

  4. #49
    Silver Member simone's Avatar
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    we also need to take into consideration the children's backgrounds: what is their homelife like? who are the "heroes" in their young lives? to whom do they most closely relate? what is their level of exposure to the media (from above; a valid question), and what type of exposure was it? these could all shape their views. i guess if we get some of these answers, particularly to #1 & #2, we may start to find clues as to why they're valuing lighter-skinned people.

    in other cultures i've studied (african continent, indian subcontinent, asia, and many otheres), the same values apply: lighter-skinned people are considered more beautiful, more intelligent, higher class, and overall "better." it IS sad, but true. not sure why this is, though.
    The first step to acquiring wisdom is to admit that you really know nothing.

  5. #50
    Elite Member Soth's Avatar
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    simone, ITA. There are to many variables. But most of the cultures that you mentioned seemed to have in their history a caste class system inherent.And with that comes the suffering of their darker skinned brethren. However aside from colonial mistreatment, the westernization (I call it tighty whitey) of the world seems to be more idealistic and appealing. Then you end up with Michael Jackson.

  6. #51
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    See, the whole color thing is so off.. i mean, really off.

    Darth Vader was given an all black costume because black = evil

    The black night had black armor, black = evil

    Gabriel Byrnn playing the devil wore all black.. black = evil

    Lord of the Rings: all villains wear black or are darkly colored to show their evil nature

    Most villains in contemporary and even mythical stories wear black or are darkly colored, to show that they are corrupt and dark hearted, while the heroes most often wear light colors and are lightly colored to show purity of heart

    So this whole "4 year olds seeing afro-centric dolls as evil because they're afro centric and society is just AWFUL" nonsense is just that.

    give me a break. Fuck oprah and her faux racist bullshit.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #52
    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    great examples, Grimm.

  8. #53
    Elite Member louiswinthorpe111's Avatar
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    My mom told me this story about myself a few years back.

    When I was 4-5 years old, I got my Sesame Street Little People set (late 70's). I was modelled after Sesame Street show with all the characters. My mom said that when I came across the Gordon character, I gave it back to her and said it was rotten.

    I was quite agast by this statement I made in my youth. My mom said, "How were you supposed to know? I was a stay at home mom and there were no black people in our neighborhood. Other than going to the store and places like that, you really had no interaction with black people until kindergarten."

    Maybe it's the same here.

  9. #54
    Elite Member pinkbunnyslippers's Avatar
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    She shouldn't have done a show like this. Just like when Tyra has race issues on her show. Oh, btw, I had black, white, and Asian baby dolls and Barbies.
    "Fashion is an art, but individuality is the key"

  10. #55
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simone View Post
    we also need to take into consideration the children's backgrounds: what is their homelife like? who are the "heroes" in their young lives? to whom do they most closely relate? what is their level of exposure to the media (from above; a valid question), and what type of exposure was it? these could all shape their views. i guess if we get some of these answers, particularly to #1 & #2, we may start to find clues as to why they're valuing lighter-skinned people.

    in other cultures i've studied (african continent, indian subcontinent, asia, and many otheres), the same values apply: lighter-skinned people are considered more beautiful, more intelligent, higher class, and overall "better." it IS sad, but true. not sure why this is, though.
    I agree. I've travelled in a lot of Third World countries and I was always surprised and a bit sad to find out that people valued my skin colour over their own. I've mentioned this before but on a long bus ride in Indonesia I sat next to a woman and complimented her on her beautiful little girl. She said her child would be more beautiful if she looked like me. Sad, but that is the prevailing value system.

  11. #56
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    This is an interesting topic because we were just talking about this last week at my house...my 4 year-old niece is in pre-school. She lives in Japan because my brother's stationed there but she goes to school on base with a lot of other military kids. She's surrounded by lots of other American children, but obviously there are more caucasian kids in her class as opposed to other black or hispanic American kids like her. In my eyes, my niece is a baby. But, she surprised us last week by mentioning the fact that she wanted to be 'white' and not 'brown' anymore.

    My niece is tanned like her mother. My sister-in-law has brown eyes and black hair and she's pretty tanned. She basically has the coloring of Michelle Rodriguez. Well, my brother (my niece's father) is really light complected with green eyes. My niece looks like her mother so she's brown, with brown eyes and black hair. She went up to my brother last week and told him 'Daddy, how come you're not brown like me and Mommy? I don't want to be brown anymore. I want to be white like you'. My brother and my sister-in-law are also expecting another baby in two months and my niece has been telling her mother that she wants her baby sister to be 'brown' too because if the baby comes out 'white' like Daddy, her Daddy will love that baby 'more'. She's also been telling my sister-in-law that she wants to be 'white' like her friends Kayla and Serena (little caucasian girls she goes to school with). Isn't that shocking? She's only 4 years old and already she is so aware of skin color. That really surprised and saddened me, like wow, she's sort of unhappy or feeling less than everyone else by being brown. My sister-in-law said she told her daughter that brown skin is pretty too...she said she told her "Look at Pocahontas from your cartoon. She's pretty and she has brown skin too". I also told my sister-in-law to make sure other kids at school weren't teasing her or telling her things about being darker than them....she's not that dark, but you never know. She's probably a little darker than Madonna's kid, Lourdes, but she has that sort of 'look' (just to give you guys an idea of how she looks).

    Anyway, it's so wierd how we as humans react to color. But being light-complected myself, maybe I've never known anything else and don't know how it's like to be dark. Maybe people treat dark or tanned kids differently....it's just strange how being 'light' or 'white' is so desirable in society nowadays and children so young catch on to that.

    Truly sad.

  12. #57
    Gold Member haggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    HOW DID YOU DO THAT??? I wanted to color mine, but can remember trying to with felt tip pens & it wouldn't work! Damn! I wish we could go back & play dolls again!! You would have been my best friend!
    I did it the same way you dye easter eggs. I put a bunch of food coloring in a bowl til it was this yucky brown color, then put in hot water and vinegar (my sister helped with the easter egg recipe) and then just soaked barbies hair in it. She ended up with a medium brown color, which wasnt exactly like my hair but it was a whole hell of a lot closer than the blonde.
    Dramatically overdramatic

  13. #58
    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiswinthorpe111 View Post
    My mom told me this story about myself a few years back.

    When I was 4-5 years old, I got my Sesame Street Little People set (late 70's). I was modelled after Sesame Street show with all the characters. My mom said that when I came across the Gordon character, I gave it back to her and said it was rotten.

    I was quite agast by this statement I made in my youth. My mom said, "How were you supposed to know? I was a stay at home mom and there were no black people in our neighborhood. Other than going to the store and places like that, you really had no interaction with black people until kindergarten."

    Maybe it's the same here.
    I am sorry but this is funny. I mean, not because of black/white but just being a little kid that knows no better and thinking because something was black it was rotten. (ex. bananas) you knew you weren't supposed to eat that black banana. haha
    It's just the innocent childhood that made me giggle.

  14. #59
    Silver Member shoegal's Avatar
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    I am not surprised by the results of the doll test. But, Ms. Winfrey, it has little to do with racism that a 3yr old has.

    There are little to no ethnic persons in the media that have leading roles/jobs. No wonder no children cared to play with a doll they can't relate to. DUH!!!

    I really feel bad for Asians, they are no where in sight unless you are looking for a sexless unic/ comic/ ninja.

    The fact that the media exaggerates "Are we ready for Obama? Are we ready for a black president?" Shows how racist and fuck-up we all really are. If we really wanted to get over this kind of hatred, we need to stop perpetuating it. This, I believe, will never change, because we stink as humans!


  15. #60
    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    It would be more interesting to conduct this experiment in a culture where there has been minimal exposure to mainstream media and where the society is more homogenous.
    Please. This culture will never be that. It's probably a lot of the problems we experience now.

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