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Thread: Intervention

  1. #91
    Elite Member shedevilang's Avatar
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    I agree olivia that seems to be on of the worst drugs i've seen

  2. #92
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    In "real life", there have been two major national studies which followed up on five-year recovery rates of alcohol and drug addicts. The results were that 18% and 21% respectively stayed off drugs and alcohol. However, 6% and 9% also died during that same five-year period.....which is another way to stay off of mind-altering substances for the long-term......

    And some drugs are worse than others....crack cocaine has around a 4% long-term recovery rate......
    Well given that you are dealing with a five year time period..and dealing with addicts/alchoholics of all ages..A certain percentage of the population is going to naturally die in a five year period. Just like quitting smoking(but more complex of course) the more times you try to quit alcohol and drugs the more likely you are to ultimately be successful. It is an ongoing thing. Most people have relapses. I would not say that staying completely 'clean' or 'sober' over a 5 year period would be the only definition of 'success' If someone was a hardcore alcoholic/drug abuser and over a five year period had two relapses of two days each for a total of 4 days not sober..over a five year period..I would still consider that successful. Most people do relapse. While constant sobriety and a good quality of life are ultimate goals, perfection is rarely achieved, and one must look at the broader picture, etc.
    There is a difference between someone slipping after 3 years of sobriety during a weekend, and then getting right back into sobriety for years, then someone slipping after 3 years of sobriety, and being drunk/on drugs for 3 months(or 3 years) before getting back to sobriety.


    *sorry for the preaching..
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  3. #93
    Elite Member shedevilang's Avatar
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    I totally agree with you and very well put

  4. #94
    Elite Member cynic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    Well given that you are dealing with a five year time period..and dealing with addicts/alchoholics of all ages..A certain percentage of the population is going to naturally die in a five year period. Just like quitting smoking(but more complex of course) the more times you try to quit alcohol and drugs the more likely you are to ultimately be successful. It is an ongoing thing. Most people have relapses. I would not say that staying completely 'clean' or 'sober' over a 5 year period would be the only definition of 'success' If someone was a hardcore alcoholic/drug abuser and over a five year period had two relapses of two days each for a total of 4 days not sober..over a five year period..I would still consider that successful. Most people do relapse. While constant sobriety and a good quality of life are ultimate goals, perfection is rarely achieved, and one must look at the broader picture, etc.
    There is a difference between someone slipping after 3 years of sobriety during a weekend, and then getting right back into sobriety for years, then someone slipping after 3 years of sobriety, and being drunk/on drugs for 3 months(or 3 years) before getting back to sobriety.


    *sorry for the preaching..
    Preaching doesn't work on addicts......little does.....the statistics are dismal.....they weren't counting relapses. They looked at the subject group of addicts and alcoholics and then tried to find the same group five years later to see if they were still using. I'm sure nearly all of the group relapsed....but only 18 and 21% were still attempting recovery five years later. The rest (82% and 79%) were still in active addiction and alcoholism.

    The subject group was between 15 and 55 years of age....not prime years for non-users to die in those percentages......

    Addiction is a chronic disease.....and to lie about the dismal statistics isn't fair to people who are "tempting fate" by feeling they can use with no danger of addiction.....this disease cannot be cured, but it can be avoided entirely by staying away from drugs and alcohol....look at your family histories and see if you are at risk....

  5. #95
    Elite Member LynnieD's Avatar
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    A tad off topic here, but since we're kind of talking about it: A good friend of mine from WAAYYYYY back in the day is leaving an inpatient rehab facility today for alcohol addiction (she's been in 28 days). I won't go into the details of her situation, but it was her decision to go, and she paid for it out of her pocket (super expensive)...
    My question: As a friend, how can I support her during this time??


    I know everyone is different, and every situation is different, but thought I'd throw the question out anyway. Any advice, or insight you guys have would be cool.

    She's a good egg....

  6. #96
    Elite Member cynic's Avatar
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    Hey Lynnie D,

    I'm not being a smart-ass here (surprise, surprise), but I would ask her. Everyone is different. I went to some AA meetings with a friend, long ago. He knew he wanted/had to go, but didn't want to go by himself the first few times. I asked if he wanted me to go with him and I went for a few months until he found some guys to go with and a sponsor.

    Just the fact that you are offering her support will mean a lot to her. Ask her various times in case she changes her mind. And, try to be understanding if she doesn't seem like herself for a while. She is going to have to learn to change her behavior and it can be difficult to see your friend become someone you don't know for a while.

    Recovery will become the most important thing in her life. Try not to feel a little jealous over all of her new rehab friends.

    Listen a lot, be there for her and offer your support.

    You are a good friend. Regardless of what I said above....I do wish her and everyone in recovery the very best of luck....it ain't easy....but it can be done. Even if recovery rates were only 1%, SOMEONE has to be part of that 1%.

  7. #97
    Elite Member LynnieD's Avatar
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    Awesome advice Cynic! I will definitely let her lead the way so to speak...

    This isn't someone that I see regularly (which I should have said), due to where we live, but I wanted to support her all the same.

    I know it won't be easy, as it isn't for anyone...but I admire the fact that she chose to seek assistance, and will tell her that. I admire ANYONE that does.

  8. #98
    KD
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    Quote Originally Posted by LynnieD View Post
    A tad off topic here, but since we're kind of talking about it: A good friend of mine from WAAYYYYY back in the day is leaving an inpatient rehab facility today for alcohol addiction (she's been in 28 days). I won't go into the details of her situation, but it was her decision to go, and she paid for it out of her pocket (super expensive)...
    My question: As a friend, how can I support her during this time??


    I know everyone is different, and every situation is different, but thought I'd throw the question out anyway. Any advice, or insight you guys have would be cool.

    She's a good egg....
    Buy her a bottle of champaigne, DUH!!

    JUST KIDDING!!!

    Good for your friend, Lynnie, it is rare for people to check themselves into rehab, she obviously WANTED to find her sobriety. As someone who no longer drinks and had a family history rife with alcoholism, among other addictions, I agree that you should ask your friend. And good for you for being such a thoughtful friend.

  9. #99
    Elite Member shedevilang's Avatar
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    I would just call her up tell you are proud of her and offer her your support which she'll need and I agree with everyone let her tell you what she needs most. and tell her to call you if the urge hits and maybe you can help her through that

  10. #100
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    Preaching doesn't work on addicts......little does.....the statistics are dismal.....they weren't counting relapses. They looked at the subject group of addicts and alcoholics and then tried to find the same group five years later to see if they were still using. I'm sure nearly all of the group relapsed....but only 18 and 21% were still attempting recovery five years later. The rest (82% and 79%) were still in active addiction and alcoholism.

    The subject group was between 15 and 55 years of age....not prime years for non-users to die in those percentages......

    Addiction is a chronic disease.....and to lie about the dismal statistics isn't fair to people who are "tempting fate" by feeling they can use with no danger of addiction.....this disease cannot be cured, but it can be avoided entirely by staying away from drugs and alcohol....look at your family histories and see if you are at risk....
    I was not preaching to any addicts. I have had experience with dealing with addiction and in particular AA(I got an OMVI and had to go..and made some friends ). And of course my own experience with eating disorders(different but some similarities). And I still stand by this statement. "Most people have relapses. I would not say that staying completely 'clean' or 'sober' over a 5 year period would be the only definition of 'success' My exroommates new roommate had a relapse a few weeks ago and was so upset about the relapse itself that instead of just trying to get help and get back going, attempted suicide, and is now in a mental hospital here in Columbus(I need to talk to my friend, his roommate may be out by now).(also this was not his first relapse..but out of shame he was covering them up..hiding it from people. Relapse has such a stigma and there is even 'shunning' among people in recovery I have found. ..) I agree in most part with what you are saying, but at some point if you just tell people 'you are doomed'..they will believe it and it will be a self fulfilling prophesy. I would never offer the statistics you did without also offering a message of hope. That is my point I guess.

    I have personally known people who, when they felt they would relapse, actually comitted suicide rather than relapse. Can you see the other side of the coin I am trying to present? I think it is part of what you are saying, and part of what I am saying..rambling now..done.


    ---Also do you have a breakdown between alcoholics..and drug addicts..and maybe even the differences among different drugs of choice? Personally I am so thankful I never went down the road of illicit drug use/abuse/addiction..*knocks wood*
    Last edited by Sojiita; February 15th, 2007 at 07:17 PM.
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  11. #101
    A*O
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    LynnieD - I have a good friend who's a recovering alcoholic (2 years sober, yay!) and when he first came out of a month of inpatient rehab he really welcomed the opportunity to discuss his addiction rather than have people pretend it never happened. During his treatment he gained a lot of useful insights into why he drank in the first place (basically, Mommie dearest) and afterwards he wanted to talk about how he was doing with his recovery, how he felt about it, etc and most importantly he wanted to know he could pick up the phone for a chat if he ever felt he was going to 'wobble'.

    There is still a lot of shame and stigma attached to addiction (and some addicts have reason to be ashamed of their behaviour while in the grip of the illness) so being able to openly discuss a somewhat 'taboo' subject is another part of the healing process.
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  12. #102
    Elite Member cynic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    I was not preaching to any addicts. I have had experience with dealing with addiction and in particular AA(I got an OMVI and had to go..and made some friends ). And of course my own experience with eating disorders(different but some similarities). And I still stand by this statement. "Most people have relapses. I would not say that staying completely 'clean' or 'sober' over a 5 year period would be the only definition of 'success' My exroommates new roommate had a relapse a few weeks ago and was so upset about the relapse itself that instead of just trying to get help and get back going, attempted suicide, and is now in a mental hospital here in Columbus(I need to talk to my friend, his roommate may be out by now).(also this was not his first relapse..but out of shame he was covering them up..hiding it from people. Relapse has such a stigma and there is even 'shunning' among people in recovery I have found. ..) I agree in most part with what you are saying, but at some point if you just tell people 'you are doomed'..they will believe it and it will be a self fulfilling prophesy. I would never offer the statistics you did without also offering a message of hope. That is my point I guess.

    I have personally known people who, when they felt they would relapse, actually comitted suicide rather than relapse. Can you see the other side of the coin I am trying to present? I think it is part of what you are saying, and part of what I am saying..rambling now..done.


    ---Also do you have a breakdown between alcoholics..and drug addicts..and maybe even the differences among different drugs of choice? Personally I am so thankful I never went down the road of illicit drug use/abuse/addiction..*knocks wood*

    Ah, I can see the other side, but I choose not to any more. I stuck around with an addict for years watching relapse after relapse and listening to enough excuses to last several lifetimes. I watched a very rapid descent into madness and disease. I would rather keep an addict from beginning that journey than to worry about making existing addicts "feel bad." One of the definitions of an addict is to perpetually "feel bad." What I say is only going to be one more excuse to use. Regardless of what I say, addicts use. That's what they do.

    Do I have pity for them? Yes. But I have more for the people that get hurt by being around them. And I care more about people who can be saved before getting hooked by making them see the reality of drug abuse. I am not a proponent of changing reality to make people feel better about themselves. That is a very, very short-term solution and that type of thinking is what got addicts to chase drugs in the first place.....

    You just have a softer heart than I, Sojiita.....mine got calluses after a six-year marriage to a crackhead.....and, yes, six years into the divorce....she is still using.......

    Alcoholism takes a while longer.

  13. #103
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    Do I have pity for them? Yes. But I have more for the people that get hurt by being around them. And I care more about people who can be saved before getting hooked by making them see the reality of drug abuse. I am not a proponent of changing reality to make people feel better about themselves. That is a very, very short-term solution and that type of thinking is what got addicts to chase drugs in the first place.....
    Totally agree cynic.
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  14. #104
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    Ah, I can see the other side, but I choose not to any more. I stuck around with an addict for years watching relapse after relapse and listening to enough excuses to last several lifetimes. I watched a very rapid descent into madness and disease. I would rather keep an addict from beginning that journey than to worry about making existing addicts "feel bad." One of the definitions of an addict is to perpetually "feel bad." What I say is only going to be one more excuse to use. Regardless of what I say, addicts use. That's what they do.

    Do I have pity for them? Yes. But I have more for the people that get hurt by being around them. And I care more about people who can be saved before getting hooked by making them see the reality of drug abuse. I am not a proponent of changing reality to make people feel better about themselves. That is a very, very short-term solution and that type of thinking is what got addicts to chase drugs in the first place.....

    You just have a softer heart than I, Sojiita.....mine got calluses after a six-year marriage to a crackhead.....and, yes, six years into the divorce....she is still using.......

    Alcoholism takes a while longer.
    Well I have a softer heart..sorta. I tend to have very little tolerance for crack/heroin/meth addicts. I know with alcoholism it can be very destructive to others(domestic abuse, drunk driving) and all. But the nature of these other addictions scares the shit out of me. You do not have people stealing, breaking into houses, you do not have the criminal element and dealings, etc. with alcoholics at least. You do not have drive by shootings over alcohol and they do not go and spend thousands of dollars of theirs or others money in a one night alcohol binge.

    About that exroomie with the current(soon to be ex) roomie who relapsed and was in the mental hospital? Well he is out now and doing ok. But he was a crack addict(recovering so we thought). When my roommate moved out and was moving in with that guy, he helped my roommate move. Shortly after that my home was brazenly broken into (while I was here and sleeping) and money was quickly stolen -before I could even get up to find out what was going on. To do what they did the person had to have been in my house before. Now that I know about the relapses(being hidden at that time)..I know who the person was who broke in. My exroomie is now moving out away from that guy..and all but admitted it on the phone to me last night that it was the guy(his current roommate).

    When I was going to the required AA meetings I decided to go to the gay AA meetings and make some friends while at it(why not?) and I did make some friends. However alot of the people went there for just(recovery from) drugs..or primarily drugs, or for both drugs and alcohol.

    I decided that I really just did not want to be around recovering 'addicts(drug related)' and had to distance myself from those people. And yes I have to admit most did not stay clean. I may seem like I have a soft heart, but when it comes to my own safety and how it affects my life now I guess I am more realistic. I just had serious trust issues and learned so much about crack and meth addiction that I could no longer feel safe around people who were recovering drug addicts. Too many were relapsing, too many were hiding that..and too many were doing dangerous/criminal things when they did relapse.

    the alcoholics who relapsed just seemed to get drunk or whatever*bad enough). The addicts would go on drug binges, steal money, hang with criminals, etc. just much worse things. I guess I developed a bias against drug addicts vs alcoholics in that way. If an alcoholic relapses I have to worry when on the road that they might be out there drunk driving..when an addict relapses I have to wonder if they will break into my house to steal stuff ..or worse. I can understand very clearly now where you are coming from when you say you were married to a crackhead.

    It may be meanspirited..but I just do not want anything to do with any recovering drug addicts. Maybe if they have some serious clean time..maybe.
    I just cannot take the risk of knowing/being around/having them around/ me. It is shocking the number of gay men who are involved with meth by the way. I will not have anything to do with someone using that stuff or crack. Really sad. And i have found that even when they are in recovery I cannot be around them much...I know it is the 'shunning' I was talking about kind of..but I have seen too many of them relapse and it is too risky for my own sake.

    Does that make sense? I guess I am not as soft hearted as I come across on this.


    *Also I got a rundown on some of the things that my exroomie has had to deal with. for example..I mentioned before how a crackhead broke in their house..well I found out the crackhead broke in because the roomie of my exroomie had used and owed the crackhead money..just all kinds of stuff. And I had no idea that this was happening. I just kind of did not trust the guy..just had nameless suspicions.*




    edit..... /just going back and rereading what I wrote..I guess I have been kind of a hypocrite...saying one thing in monologues on here..but acting differently in my own personal life when it comes to addicts. live and learn I guess.
    Last edited by Sojiita; February 16th, 2007 at 08:10 PM.
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  15. #105
    Elite Member olivia720's Avatar
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    Just watched this show again tonight.

    Here's something: Im always amazed at the number of people who are molested. Jesus. There are that many f'ed up losers in the world who prey on kids. Almost all of these addicts or anas/bulimics have sex abuse in their past. Its so sad and even worse when u realize how common it is.

    That was the case tonight with the two girls who were featured: the bulimic ballet dancer and the meth addict.

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